rwilly
  • rwilly
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Monday, August 27, 2012 11:13:31 PM

Here's the scoop in mo.. mo is a right to carry state. Some towns choose to say no open carry... let them take you to court. It's a right to carry state...

grmcooper wrote:

That is what I get out of this:

Pro-Gun Provisions

Open carry is permitted in Missouri. Additionally, anyone over the age of 21 is permitted to carry a handgun concealed in the glove compartment of their vehicle.

Missouri has a preemption law that prohibits municipal and county governments from enacting gun laws that are more restrictive than state law and a range protection law that protects gun ranges.

Also talked to another KCPD tonight who said it is legal throughout the state.

teedubbya
Monday, August 27, 2012 11:21:43 PM
Platte city here. Where in KC are you?
rwilly
  • rwilly
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Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:26:00 AM

Platte city here. Where in KC are you?

teedubbya wrote:

Liberty. Didn't realize there was anybody as nearby as you!

Stinkdyr
Tuesday, August 28, 2012 8:39:20 AM
Now you'll get some 'spect in da hood.

🍺

schusler
Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:49:45 PM

That is what I get out of this:

Pro-Gun Provisions

Open carry is permitted in Missouri. Additionally, anyone over the age of 21 is permitted to carry a handgun concealed in the glove compartment of their vehicle.

Missouri has a preemption law that prohibits municipal and county governments from enacting gun laws that are more restrictive than state law and a range protection law that protects gun ranges.

Also talked to another KCPD tonight who said it is legal throughout the state.

rwilly wrote:

where did that info come from?

http://www.opencarry.org/mo.html 

While open carry is generally legal in Missouri, their preemption statute is unique in that it preempts the entire field of firearms law except for the regulation of open carry. Consequently, carrying openly in Missouri will expose you to a checkerboard of local ordinances.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c000-099/0210000750.htm 

Firearms legislation preemption by general assembly, exceptions--limitation on civil recovery against firearms or ammunitions manufacturers, when, exception.

21.750. 1. The general assembly hereby occupies and preempts the entire field of legislation touching in any way firearms, components, ammunition and supplies to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by any political subdivision of this state. Any existing or future orders, ordinances or regulations in this field are hereby and shall be null and void except as provided in subsection 3 of this section.

2. No county, city, town, village, municipality, or other political subdivision of this state shall adopt any order, ordinance or regulation concerning in any way the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permit, registration, taxation other than sales and compensating use taxes or other controls on firearms, components, ammunition, and supplies except as provided in subsection 3 of this section.

3. Nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, with appropriate penalty provisions, or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction, provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243.

4. The lawful design, marketing, manufacture, distribution, or sale of firearms or ammunition to the public is not an abnormally dangerous activity and does not constitute a public or private nuisance.

5. No county, city, town, village or any other political subdivision nor the state shall bring suit or have any right to recover against any firearms or ammunition manufacturer, trade association or dealer for damages, abatement or injunctive relief resulting from or relating to the lawful design, manufacture, marketing, distribution, or sale of firearms or ammunition to the public. This subsection shall apply to any suit pending as of October 12, 2003, as well as any suit which may be brought in the future. Provided, however, that nothing in this section shall restrict the rights of individual citizens to recover for injury or death caused by the negligent or defective design or manufacture of firearms or ammunition.

6. Nothing in this section shall prevent the state, a county, city, town, village or any other political subdivision from bringing an action against a firearms or ammunition manufacturer or dealer for breach of contract or warranty as to firearms or ammunition purchased by the state or such political subdivision.

does #3 state that nothing prohibits them from making an ordinance which regulates open carrying of firearms..

Case is Cape Girardeau vsJoyce. For those in Mo and Outside. Missouri is split into three district courts. Western, Eastern and Southern.When you are reading cases and you see them listed as such: City of Cape Girardeau v. Joyce, 884 S.W.2d 33 (Mo. App. E.D. 1994), First is the Case Name, followed by Volumn # and page and what court the opinion was made in with year: W.D.,E. D., andS.D.

Joyce was arrested and convicted of for openly carrying a handgun "readily capable of lethal use" Cape stated they were authorized by 21.750 subsection 3, to enact this ordinance. Joyce appealed and lost, that this violated his RKBA, under Article 1, section 23. Here are the words of the court, granting themselves jurisdiction:

*1. Although Mr. Joyce argues that Section 21.750 RSMo.1986 is unconstitutional, his appeal is from a conviction of an ordinance violation. Therefore, he has no standing to assert a direct attack upon the constitutionality of the statute. Accordingly, we have jurisdiction.

http://www.examiner.com/article/st-louis-county-attorney-on-crusade-against-open-carry 

In Missouri, local governments are empowered to ban the practice of openly carrying a firearm, because the state, oddly enough, preempts regulatory power of all other aspects of firearm law, but not open carry. In St. Louis County, this loophole in the state's gun law preemption powers is leading to an epidemic of open carry bans

i can find site after site that says cities and town can ban open carry and you can get in trouble for it. the officer that taught my ccw class also made it a point to tell us that it was not legal to open carry in all cities and towns in MO.. so you have to check in each city where you would plan on open carrying, to see if it is ok. rwilly from what ive read on the open carry forums your good to go in KC...just don't go to North KC, most cities around my area ban it.

.

jojoc
Tuesday, August 28, 2012 5:27:45 PM

where did that info come from?

http://www.opencarry.org/mo.html 

While open carry is generally legal in Missouri, their preemption statute is unique in that it preempts the entire field of firearms law except for the regulation of open carry. Consequently, carrying openly in Missouri will expose you to a checkerboard of local ordinances.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c000-099/0210000750.htm 

Firearms legislation preemption by general assembly, exceptions--limitation on civil recovery against firearms or ammunitions manufacturers, when, exception.

21.750. 1. The general assembly hereby occupies and preempts the entire field of legislation touching in any way firearms, components, ammunition and supplies to the complete exclusion of any order, ordinance or regulation by any political subdivision of this state. Any existing or future orders, ordinances or regulations in this field are hereby and shall be null and void except as provided in subsection 3 of this section.

2. No county, city, town, village, municipality, or other political subdivision of this state shall adopt any order, ordinance or regulation concerning in any way the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permit, registration, taxation other than sales and compensating use taxes or other controls on firearms, components, ammunition, and supplies except as provided in subsection 3 of this section.

3. Nothing contained in this section shall prohibit any ordinance of any political subdivision which conforms exactly with any of the provisions of sections 571.010 to 571.070, with appropriate penalty provisions, or which regulates the open carrying of firearms readily capable of lethal use or the discharge of firearms within a jurisdiction, provided such ordinance complies with the provisions of section 252.243.

4. The lawful design, marketing, manufacture, distribution, or sale of firearms or ammunition to the public is not an abnormally dangerous activity and does not constitute a public or private nuisance.

5. No county, city, town, village or any other political subdivision nor the state shall bring suit or have any right to recover against any firearms or ammunition manufacturer, trade association or dealer for damages, abatement or injunctive relief resulting from or relating to the lawful design, manufacture, marketing, distribution, or sale of firearms or ammunition to the public. This subsection shall apply to any suit pending as of October 12, 2003, as well as any suit which may be brought in the future. Provided, however, that nothing in this section shall restrict the rights of individual citizens to recover for injury or death caused by the negligent or defective design or manufacture of firearms or ammunition.

6. Nothing in this section shall prevent the state, a county, city, town, village or any other political subdivision from bringing an action against a firearms or ammunition manufacturer or dealer for breach of contract or warranty as to firearms or ammunition purchased by the state or such political subdivision.

does #3 state that nothing prohibits them from making an ordinance which regulates open carrying of firearms..

Case is Cape Girardeau vsJoyce. For those in Mo and Outside. Missouri is split into three district courts. Western, Eastern and Southern.When you are reading cases and you see them listed as such: City of Cape Girardeau v. Joyce, 884 S.W.2d 33 (Mo. App. E.D. 1994), First is the Case Name, followed by Volumn # and page and what court the opinion was made in with year: W.D.,E. D., andS.D.

Joyce was arrested and convicted of for openly carrying a handgun "readily capable of lethal use" Cape stated they were authorized by 21.750 subsection 3, to enact this ordinance. Joyce appealed and lost, that this violated his RKBA, under Article 1, section 23. Here are the words of the court, granting themselves jurisdiction:

*1. Although Mr. Joyce argues that Section 21.750 RSMo.1986 is unconstitutional, his appeal is from a conviction of an ordinance violation. Therefore, he has no standing to assert a direct attack upon the constitutionality of the statute. Accordingly, we have jurisdiction.

http://www.examiner.com/article/st-louis-county-attorney-on-crusade-against-open-carry 

In Missouri, local governments are empowered to ban the practice of openly carrying a firearm, because the state, oddly enough, preempts regulatory power of all other aspects of firearm law, but not open carry. In St. Louis County, this loophole in the state's gun law preemption powers is leading to an epidemic of open carry bans

i can find site after site that says cities and town can ban open carry and you can get in trouble for it. the officer that taught my ccw class also made it a point to tell us that it was not legal to open carry in all cities and towns in MO.. so you have to check in each city where you would plan on open carrying, to see if it is ok. rwilly from what ive read on the open carry forums your good to go in KC...just don't go to North KC, most cities around my area ban it.

.

schusler wrote:

That is correct. The statute specifically allows local regulation of open carrying of firearms. The cited case reaffirms that the RKBA is not absolute, but subject to reasonable time, place and manner regulation. here is the courts holding:

Nothing in the Missouri constitution limits the power of the legislature to enact laws pertaining to the time, place and manner of carrying weapons. It is entirely proper for the General Assembly to recognize that the use and the abuse of firearms are matters appropriately left to local control and to delegate its authority to regulate the carrying of firearms as is deemed necessary by political subdivisions of the state.

Accordingly, the judgment of the trial court is affirmed.

schusler
Tuesday, August 28, 2012 6:12:39 PM
ya...^^^ thats what i meant to say....

thanks

rwilly
  • rwilly
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Tuesday, August 28, 2012 8:48:44 PM
David, looks like your source is more valid than mine - I don't remember exactly where it came from, but it wasn't a court case cited in the paper...

That being said, the two KCPD and one MSHP I spoke with the last two days all told me it was legal. Guess that goes to show the law may not always know exactly what they are supposed to enforce, especially outside of their general area.

All 3 were totally cool with open carry, but one did say that he was concerned with people being made a target by bad guys (theft/shooting you first...)

I am not planning on OC'ing any time soon, but it was some interesting reading.