leftyposthole
13 years ago
Bobby the healthcare system is a mess I agree, the Drs. charge more, the ins. co. charge more, the lawyers sue more etc. etc. Obamacare I believe was born out of frustration over the whole mess. I agree that in a loving and caring society taking care of our health concerns is important. However when things result from people being frustrated they generally do not work. There were so many things in that bill that we still don't know what to expect. No one even took he time to read it. and it was all delayed until after his second term which was by design and so I don't think that bodes well for any of us. Something as massive as that and as important should have been much more transparent. We all should be a little concerned about this
tailgater
13 years ago

The question was a tie in to his statement about not wanting any government involvement in morals. The question was only to make sure he consistently applied his statements. T

victor809 wrote:



I saw the context.
I commented because it was unrelated.

leftyposthole
13 years ago
You guys type way faster than me, I am trying to keep up. Victor, gay marriage is someones choice. I do not agree with it, but again I will not judge. Putting it on a ballot then forces me to make a choice, unless I do not vote, then I would have to vote against it. As for drunks as you call them dying in the streets, you can't force people to accept help, all we can do is make it available, its there choice if they choose to accept it. Brew its not abouit good or bad. I can't myself build a road, I can however give someone a coat or something to eat
bloody spaniard
13 years ago

Bobby the healthcare system is a mess I agree, the Drs. charge more, the ins. co. charge more, the lawyers sue more etc. etc. Obamacare I believe was born out of frustration over the whole mess. I agree that in a loving and caring society taking care of our health concerns is important. However when things result from people being frustrated they generally do not work. There were so many things in that bill that we still don't know what to expect. No one even took he time to read it. and it was all delayed until after his second term which was by design and so I don't think that bodes well for any of us. Something as massive as that and as important should have been much more transparent. We all should be a little concerned about this

leftyposthole wrote:




Don't know who Bobby is- assume you meant me, Lefty. lol
Yes, its a mess & yes, it's partly due to high liability due to unwarranted malpractice lawsuits... but as an owner of a company and having two special needs kids I, like you with your hip replacement, have had first hand experience with (actuarial health) costs vs. coverage vs. exclusions over the past 25+ years. At first, we began to shop it around but almost inevitably the premiums would rise whether or not we used our policy. Our deductibles began at about $200 per individual with 80/20 coverage ($1,000 cap per family). Now it's a $5k deductible (with $10k family cap) and the premiums are about 6x higher having soared approx. 25-30% every year. Dental & vision has long been dropped & is no longer automatically included in our BC/BS coverage.

I don't even want to go into what is excluded by those idiots but suffice to say insurance carriers favor psychotropic drugs pushed by Pharma & the FDA that mask symptoms over nutritional and other trail blazing alternatives that are not as destructive (and addictive).

In the meantime, most doctors, with the exception of brain & plastic surgeons AND your hip specialist, are making a pittance of what they used to... many belong to HMO's, PPO's, etc. and/or rely on Medicare/Medicaid to supplement their practices with those stingy coverages (payment schedules). And you're correct, their liability insurance has also risen astronomically. I remember my father paying over 50k per year despite only having one questionable lawsuit brought against him over a 35+ year private practice career.

So you have to ask yourself, who, besides the aforementioned specialists & occasional ambulance chaser, is making the money? Btw, those lawyers are not always looking to make a fast buck at the expense of an "innocent" doctor. Some physicians are very inept & apt to take the safe route with rote remedies instead of attacking an illness aggressively. Then again, you could argue, that that safe/lame behavior was mitigated by fear of lawsuits... But to answer my own question, I believe it's insurance executives who are hauling the bulk of doe. Their bonuses/salaries are based on how many claims they deny. The key is to fight them after the initial rejection but that takes it's till in time and money. They rip off the insured AND vendors whether it's a hospital or a diaper supplier.

I could go on and on like some windbags but I have matters to take care of in the office and besides, most of us are set in our ways and not liable to change our minds after sparring on a cigar board. No hard feelings either way.

Curious as to how a conservative came up with leftyposthole however... lol
leftyposthole
13 years ago
Bloody thanks for the civil responce, I was talking to a Bobby who has been responding here as well. I was not really trying to say the ins. co. are not culpibable, they are just as guilty as everyone involved. It is a very complex issue unlike feeding the hungry. Yes not every lawsuit is frivolous, however many are. Just like life mistakes happen that does not mean something was intentional it was just a mistake, albeit when it comes to medicine it does become more serious. Just because a mistake is made does not mean someone has to be liable. We have a famous lawyer here in Wyoming, Jerry Spence who spent mos. traveling around our state telling people in town hall meetings how all there rights would be taken away if they passed the the Tort reform bill on the ballot. The bill was simply trying to limit the amount of bad suits and the amount that could be paid out. O f course what he failed to tell them was that he lived in a 20 million dollar log home in Jackson paid for by his take from suing Dr., cos. etc. With my involvement in the medical industry from a patient standpoint it has become obviously aware to me that Drs. don't just practice medicine anymore, they practice not to get sued The redundency of tests has to be costing all of us billions every year in waste. I don't have any answers, but I am almost certain that a massive unread healthcare plan put to gether by politicians is not going to be the answer
HockeyDad
13 years ago
You need to have hope.
leftyposthole
13 years ago
I do have hope, it just does not lie in politicians. Where have all the statesmen gone
DrMaddVibe
13 years ago

I do have hope, it just does not lie in politicians. Where have all the statesmen gone

leftyposthole wrote:




HIATUS!


They're on hiatus!
SMGBobbyScott
13 years ago

Bobby the healthcare system is a mess I agree, the Drs. charge more, the ins. co. charge more, the lawyers sue more etc. etc. Obamacare I believe was born out of frustration over the whole mess. I agree that in a loving and caring society taking care of our health concerns is important. However when things result from people being frustrated they generally do not work. There were so many things in that bill that we still don't know what to expect. No one even took he time to read it. and it was all delayed until after his second term which was by design and so I don't think that bodes well for any of us. Something as massive as that and as important should have been much more transparent. We all should be a little concerned about this

leftyposthole wrote:



Two things, first the document has been there the whole time for anyone with the attention span to read it. I have by the way and while I think that a system like the Germans have is probably a bit more to my liking, it is a big improvement on what we had. Second, overhauling a health system as monstrous as the US's takes time and that is the primary reason for the delays in implementation of many of the portions of the plan (plus a hope that the GOP had that they could actually stave off implementation). There are even several planned elements of the implementation that have already been delayed by a year or more because the industry could not keep up with the provisions (i.e. ICD-10 implementation).

In the end it will be better for Americans and costs will go down, people will be healthier, and (I'm guessing here) people will still get up and go to work in the morning...just more will have healthcare.
SMGBobbyScott
13 years ago

Don't know who Bobby is- assume you meant me, Lefty. lol
Yes, its a mess & yes, it's partly due to high liability due to unwarranted malpractice lawsuits... but as an owner of a company and having two special needs kids I, like you with your hip replacement, have had first hand experience with (actuarial health) costs vs. coverage vs. exclusions over the past 25+ years. At first, we began to shop it around but almost inevitably the premiums would rise whether or not we used our policy. Our deductibles began at about $200 per individual with 80/20 coverage ($1,000 cap per family). Now it's a $5k deductible (with $10k family cap) and the premiums are about 6x higher having soared approx. 25-30% every year. Dental & vision has long been dropped & is no longer automatically included in our BC/BS coverage.

I don't even want to go into what is excluded by those idiots but suffice to say insurance carriers favor psychotropic drugs pushed by Pharma & the FDA that mask symptoms over nutritional and other trail blazing alternatives that are not as destructive (and addictive).

In the meantime, most doctors, with the exception of brain & plastic surgeons AND your hip specialist, are making a pittance of what they used to... many belong to HMO's, PPO's, etc. and/or rely on Medicare/Medicaid to supplement their practices with those stingy coverages (payment schedules). And you're correct, their liability insurance has also risen astronomically. I remember my father paying over 50k per year despite only having one questionable lawsuit brought against him over a 35+ year private practice career.

So you have to ask yourself, who, besides the aforementioned specialists & occasional ambulance chaser, is making the money? Btw, those lawyers are not always looking to make a fast buck at the expense of an "innocent" doctor. Some physicians are very inept & apt to take the safe route with rote remedies instead of attacking an illness aggressively. Then again, you could argue, that that safe/lame behavior was mitigated by fear of lawsuits... But to answer my own question, I believe it's insurance executives who are hauling the bulk of doe. Their bonuses/salaries are based on how many claims they deny. The key is to fight them after the initial rejection but that takes it's till in time and money. They rip off the insured AND vendors whether it's a hospital or a diaper supplier.

I could go on and on like some windbags but I have matters to take care of in the office and besides, most of us are set in our ways and not liable to change our minds after sparring on a cigar board. No hard feelings either way.

Curious as to how a conservative came up with leftyposthole however... lol

bloody spaniard wrote:




Dude, I don't know who you've been talking to but everyone who works in healthcare is not in it to take care of people...they are in it for the money. That is why healthcare costs are going up on an average of 8-17% per year for the last several years (yes, even before Clinton, Bush, AND Obama). Tort reform would help, but only a little. Drug pricing would definitely help, but again only a little. Price fixing or competition of specialists would help...you get the trend here? The idea is that the whole system is broken. The system was bleeding money out of every pore and it needed a tourniquet solution...Other countries have this problem figured out...why not learn from them??? Is it soo bad to just admit that someone might have a better idea than we do? It worked in Massachusetts, Germany, France, Japan and just about every other industrialized nation...why can't it work here?


leftyposthole
13 years ago
I can't say whether it will be good for us or not, since I have not read it. Let just say I am alittle more than sceptical that anything good can come out of Washington. The track record speaks for itself. I sure don't expect this to be any better.
victor809
13 years ago

Dude, I don't know who you've been talking to but everyone who works in healthcare is not in it to take care of people...they are in it for the money. That is why healthcare costs are going up on an average of 8-17% per year for the last several years (yes, even before Clinton, Bush, AND Obama). Tort reform would help, but only a little. Drug pricing would definitely help, but again only a little. Price fixing or competition of specialists would help...you get the trend here? The idea is that the whole system is broken. The system was bleeding money out of every pore and it needed a tourniquet solution...Other countries have this problem figured out...why not learn from them??? Is it soo bad to just admit that someone might have a better idea than we do? It worked in Massachusetts, Germany, France, Japan and just about every other industrialized nation...why can't it work here?


SMGBobbyScott wrote:



Other countries don't have it figured out. They just chose a "low cost" option. There are trade offs, and I'm actually most afraid of what the trade-off will be when the US decides to force costs of healthcare down. I think we have been supporting a lot of the indirect costs from government controlled healthcare in the rest of the 1st world countries. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.
victor809
13 years ago

You guys type way faster than me, I am trying to keep up. Victor, gay marriage is someones choice. I do not agree with it, but again I will not judge. Putting it on a ballot then forces me to make a choice, unless I do not vote, then I would have to vote against it. As for drunks as you call them dying in the streets, you can't force people to accept help, all we can do is make it available, its there choice if they choose to accept it. Brew its not abouit good or bad. I can't myself build a road, I can however give someone a coat or something to eat

leftyposthole wrote:




Come on... you knew exactly what I was angling at, and you still managed to be contradictory.


But they cannot and should not be in the buisiness of dictating moral and social actions, other than to keep us safe. Laws and such.


If that's the way you honestly believed, then your only concern with any marriage would be whether you're involved or not.

I suppose you actually meant to say "They cannot and should not be in the business of dictating moral and social actions that I don't believe in"...

Anyway, this isn't a gay marriage thread, my point is that you're a little bit hypocritical in your stance.

As for helping people, feel free, but there's a cost. Just as with social welfare programs, if you give a drunk a coat, you'll probably have to feed the **** in the morning.
victor809
13 years ago


I guess when we tax people to pay for things we don’t use it would be socialism. If we buy roads with tax dollars it called . . . . something else. Because there is no way that anything socialistic could be good . . . .

Brewha wrote:



I'm being honest, I don't know if it's considered a socialist program to improve infrastructure. I'm not trying to make some sort of right wing hue and cry. If infrastructure and school programs are socialist, then fine, they're socialist. A label is absolutely meaningless to me. I just want us to be accurate in our discussions.
SMGBobbyScott
13 years ago

I can't say whether it will be good for us or not, since I have not read it. Let just say I am alittle more than sceptical that anything good can come out of Washington. The track record speaks for itself. I sure don't expect this to be any better.

leftyposthole wrote:



Hmmm...let's see...

The world's best military...check

The world's greatest economy...check (US Dollar the "currency of the world")

One of the world's most expansive and strongest infrastructures (roads, utilities, etc.)...check

The greatest university system the world has ever known....check

The internet...check (not Al Gore BTW)

Shall I go on???

You guys are not half empty cups...you are empty cups...you don't know how good you have it OR how good things could be. Kwit yer bellyaching!!!




tailgater
13 years ago

Dude, I don't know who you've been talking to but everyone who works in healthcare is not in it to take care of people...they are in it for the money. That is why healthcare costs are going up on an average of 8-17% per year for the last several years (yes, even before Clinton, Bush, AND Obama). Tort reform would help, but only a little. Drug pricing would definitely help, but again only a little. Price fixing or competition of specialists would help...you get the trend here? The idea is that the whole system is broken. The system was bleeding money out of every pore and it needed a tourniquet solution...Other countries have this problem figured out...why not learn from them??? Is it soo bad to just admit that someone might have a better idea than we do? It worked in Massachusetts, Germany, France, Japan and just about every other industrialized nation...why can't it work here?


SMGBobbyScott wrote:



Man, I started laughing so hard that I was going to thank you, but then I realized you were serious.

Obamacare isn't going to fix drug pricing. How could it? The same corporations will make the pills and sell them in the same quantities.
The price of specialists won't matter, because a single-payer system will not cover these expenses in full. Maybe Obamacare is trying to achieve this, but go to Canada or anywhere in Europe. Their socialized insurance programs do not cover specialists. Unless you consider being "covered" as meaning having to wait over a year for hip replacement. Or 9 months for a good Heart guy.

And then you finish with the laugh of the day, when you imply that the best way to SAVE money and improve efficiency is to hire the US Federal governement to do the job!!! Holy crap that's even funnier when I read it again!!!

And by the way, as a resident of Massachusetts and a partner in a manufacturing business, let me tell you: It isn't really "working" here. The costs are higher than any other state, and most people still want private plans and HMO's because they are vastly superior.
It isn't woking in Canada, where the residents drive down to Boston or some other US hospital to have surgury performed.
It doesn't work in England, where my neighbor just lost her father because their system was so slow and cumbersome that by the time they found the cancer it was too late. This was a guy who was very diligent about doctors visits and his health. Over the course of 9 months he was repeatedly told that his inability to breathe was simply residual fluids from a bout with pneumonia. And no he can't have those other tests performed because they're not covered.

My neighbors laugh out loud when they hear the system used in England floated out there as an example. They are MUCH happier with our "broken" system than what they left behind.

Bottom line: If you want something done better and more effecient, then the US federal Governement is the LAST place you should consider. They know only two things: More expensive and Slower. Sometimes they combine the two. Which feature are you shooting for with our health insurance?
DrMaddVibe
13 years ago

Hmmm...let's see...

The world's best military...check

SMGBobbyScott wrote:



How's that? Maybe around WWII (which we're STILL deployed!) but you'd have to forget about Korea (Which we're ATILL deployed), Vietnam which we ran out of...Desert Storm where we stopped instead of finishing the job only to go back into that hellhole (which we're STILL deployed) and the quagmire called Afghanistan where were' in the midst of cutting and running!


The world's greatest economy...check (US Dollar the "currency of the world")

SMGBobbyScott wrote:



Nations right now are ready to rip the "currency of the world" title away.


One of the world's most expansive and strongest infrastructures (roads, utilities, etc.)...check

SMGBobbyScott wrote:



Jesus, to hear some in here on this board we're all gonna die because of the roads, bridges and infrastructures! Take a look at Holland and the dam system they built...hows that compare with the levy system in Louisiana?


The greatest university system the world has ever known....check

SMGBobbyScott wrote:



and still people rave about being a Rhodes Scholar...last time I checked Oxford was in England 🤔


The internet...check (not Al Gore BTW)

SMGBobbyScott wrote:



There are parts of this nation that don't even have the internet! There are even larger parts that don't have highspeed internet like most Asian nations.

Shall I go on???

SMGBobbyScott wrote:




Meh...why? After every statement you said "check"...we wrote a BIG check for stuff we can't afford. We're in debt. I know, I know...you've still got checks? Yeah...in our world it doesn't work like it does in DC!
teedubbya
13 years ago
I wonder how the admin cost of Medicare compares to that of the private insurance industry? IE how many cents of each health care dollar goes towards direct care vs something else? Anyone know where we can find this information?
SMGBobbyScott
13 years ago

Other countries don't have it figured out. They just chose a "low cost" option. There are trade offs, and I'm actually most afraid of what the trade-off will be when the US decides to force costs of healthcare down. I think we have been supporting a lot of the indirect costs from government controlled healthcare in the rest of the 1st world countries. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.

victor809 wrote:



That isn't true...some do make some choices based upon cost that cause longer waits for some services (i.e.England, Canada, etc.) but these are by and large specialist and high end services. In the US many of these services we have similar problems, they are just called "problems getting an appointment". That isn't due to government regulation, it is due to inefficient and poorly planned systems and providers that make seven figures seeing 10 patients a day (a little overstatement there, but not much).

I personally choose longer life for our citizens and access to primary and preventative services...the kind that really have an effect on length and quality of life.

We do agree on one thing...It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
ZRX1200
13 years ago
7 patients a day for 7 figures?

I usually just ignore you but this is asinine.

No doctors in my area make 7 figures from salary alone and 7 patients a day? Maybe a plastic surgeon or orthopedic specialist.......and BTW we have an award winning hospital here.

I have discussed at length with local doctors here and thanks to insurance they spend as much time filling out paperwork as they do seeing patients. That's why many forgo private practice unless its a group and most just look for good hospital jobs.

A major issue besides what Bloody stated about insurance management is also patients behavior. Going to the doctor every time you have the sniffles or using the ER as a physicians office has financial consequences. Also THE INCREASE OF STATE AND FEDERAL INSURANCE (MEDICARE/MEDICAID) raises private insurance costs because everone takes it in the azz on their pricing.
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