I have been Politically active for 30 years and held / Hold many offices. Currently i hold a local office in a town who was hoplessly in debt 10 years ago . It is now completly out of debt and the taxes have not been increased since i have held office, oh and we haven't started a War either but don't come here to take our guns or it will be WAR!

jackconrad wrote:

It was a crap post Jack because they have been limiting what you can own for 45 years.

drywalldog wrote:

It was a crap post Jack because they have been limiting what you can own for 45 years.

drywalldog wrote:

Typical liberal smoke screen. Read the Federalist Papers and then tell me we have no idea of what their intent was.

dpnewell wrote:

Yeah...so let's not read what they wrote...let's just let lawyers and lobbyists write legislation and do whatever...yeah...it's worked wonders.

Look at the mess they created.

A far cry from the "experiment" they created.

DrMaddVibe wrote:

I also apparently forgot that dichotomies were the only way to view the world. Let's cherry-pick the gun control issue. Let's forget about slavery, women's rights, church/state separation, or the ability to question the government. The Founders were clearly right to put off those discussions because their decisions were and are completely perfect and perfectly applicable in the Digital Age in every way, shape, and form. Jefferson was both correct and wrong, which still makes him correct, when he said "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion." We should take stands in any modern discussions based on the presumed opinions (which we somehow have complete certainty on) of a bunch of rich, white, men who died 150 years ago.

tegulator wrote:

The Federalist Papers are what they used to communicate to every citizen (see they didn't have American Idol back then) because they valued reading and wanted to know what we were fighting for! Educate yourself.

That bunch of rich, white men...many of whom lost loved ones...fortunes...created a document that many regard as the finest ever created as a basis for a government...so an idiot such as yourself could proclaim aburdities about it being an open ended document to change with the nation. They enabled that function because they were wise enough to see that it's not perfect. They also made it difficult to change for that reason!

Thanks for showing all the board how you cannot grasp that.


Why how would we have such a rebellion every 20 years if we didn't have the ability with the same weapons as the government we're supposed to overthrow?:-k


Yeah.

DrMaddVibe wrote:

Ah, how quickly we descend into ad hominems. The Federalist Papers were written by three men (Hamilton, Madison, and Jay) urging people to support the newly-drafted Constitution, despite the best efforts of the Anti-federalists/Democratic-Republicans. This was long after the American Revolution, so there was no "fighting" going on...apart from the endless bickering over how states should pay off their Revolutionary War debt (unless you want to argue Shays' Rebellion). You're also fooling yourself if you think the literacy rate was high enough for this to be a democratizing effort, because there wasn't anything approaching universal white male suffrage until the Jackson administration (at the earliest).

Many of those who lost fortunes and loved ones were only able to sustain them because of slave labor. No one ever said the document was perfect.

tegulator wrote:

Most of those "ignant" citizens weren't able to vote (as many people in here wouldn't be able to either). They weren't educated, white, property-owning, males with the means to inform themselves. Thanks for helping me make my point. I fail to see any "selective memory" here. But continue on...

tegulator wrote:

I'd be willing to state that there were more voracious and competent readers say in the states of MA, NY and VA COMBINED back then than there are now in present day Wayne county Michigan!

DrMaddVibe wrote:

A tour of Monticello shows the visitor what the man did with the tools at his disposal, oh wait...you're going to say the slaves did it all aren't you? Yes, the slavemaster Jefferson whipped them until he flayed the skin off their bones...yes he did...that's ALL he did...and in his spare time he crafted the Constitution. Why the crafty ol' Devil hisself...whatever.

DrMaddVibe wrote:

Seen your type trying to take the same stance in the classrooms. That dog don't hunt.

DrMaddVibe wrote:

What you have is the government and the history we ALL share. It's not pretty. There were wrongs committed and it took better men than Jefferson to right them; however they did it under the same government he helped create. The blood this nation has shed to right the wrongs would fill an ocean, but you're expecting more? Is this nation so evil that you cannot live here anymore or are you the agent of change a divine entity divulged the wrongs and you're going to right them all? The aborted babies? Climate change? Over-population? Famine? Peace? What wrong did you forget because you're stuck with the "educated, white, property-owning, males with the means to inform themselves" types. You're forgetting it is an open ended process that this Grand Experiment really is.

DrMaddVibe wrote:

The people read more then they do now. They didn't have tv...radio...telegraph...telephones...they had newspapers. It took days and weeks to reach the people. In most cases they'd read the entire thing front to back multiple times. You choose to make this some racial bender by interjecting the quote above. The ONLY point you made is that you want to racebait like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson!

DrMaddVibe wrote:

Then again, after reading The Federalist Papers...link provided, you're welcome...

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/histdox/fedpapers.html 

You'd be able to deduce that you don't have to be a rocket surgeon to figure it all out. It's cliff note format is pretty basic. STILL can't figure it out? Well, back then you were encouraged to engage in conversation. Unless you're yoked by the neck and aren't "educated, white, property-owning, males with the means to inform themselves" ignant. You're stuck in the mud with the "educated, white, property-owning, males with the means to inform themselves" not willing to do anything for yourself. C'mon...you're better than that...aren't you?

DrMaddVibe wrote:

I don't teach animals, I teach undergraduates...although there are a few similarities. Let's see how quickly charges of "Marxism," "liberal-elitism," or "corrupting our nation's youth" come to play.

This is not interesting.

tegulator wrote: