The healthcare INSURANCE system was broken before Obamacare. After the ACA, the healthcare INSURANCE system is still broken, and slowly getting worse, for a multitude of reasons but primarily because the party in power refuses to promote the exchanges, enforce the mandate and skip paying subsidies.

The interesting thing is that although the American people were conditioned to believe that the ACA/Obamacare program was a catastrophe that would destroy America, it actually provided 20 million MORE Americans with decent health insurance, with minimum levels of benefits and where those with pre-existing conditions couldn't be denied coverage.

Even though many Americans still deplore Obamacare, they love the health insurance they got as a result of the ACA, and will not give it up willingly, even if the GOP says it sucks so it should be repealed. It aint gonna be repealed...we'll eventually get around to tinkering with the problems with the state exchanges, pressure will be put on the market to promote the purchase of insurance without a mandate, in the form of subsidies or penalties for buying insurance after an accident, employer based health insurance will not be required...and other potential fixes...

let it happen at the state level... 😟

except for removing the whole state line thing that causes all the problems

[sarcasm]

just give everybody what they had 10 years ago and call it good... 😟

I'd be back to never being able to change jobs due to a preexisting condition but I suppose that's ok.

Taking on people with pre-existing conditions is like telling auto insurance companies they have to insure the guy that's been in 12 accidents. You're asking them to board a sinking ship. What business in their right mind would do that? It raises rates for everyone else.

If what you guys say is true, and all these folks were just going to the emergency room, and they were getting covered at our expense there... why the outrage? They're still covered if it gets repealed, right? They'll just go to the emergency room, like before... so what's the big deal?

Or maybe you're just talking out your ass.

I think there's a code for that... 😟

Its not that simple Mr Trump LOL

But I do know a little about health care delivery systems, payment and insurance from the inside and outside. It's one thing I do know.

As for the preexisting condition at least you are honest about it. You are cool with it.

One of the companies I worked for wanted to exclude preventative care and restrict prenatal care because statistically folks would likely change insurance before any benefit (savings) were recognized so why would we pay for another insurance companies savings LOL

wicked business

well, if you'd quit drinking with your antibiotics your hep just might go away.... 😳

but there is pee everywhere


by the way with DNA testing there is a legal argument for preexisting conditions prior to birth thus never eligible for insurance.

but they can still go to da methadone clinic tho right..?? 😕

yea and they can still vote in the mexican elections

well hell.... what else do they need..?? 😕

chalupas?

NOBODY




EXPECTS




THE





SPANISH






INQUISITION!!!!!

[frypan]

I understand it isn't that simple, Tim.

I am vehemently against government mandated, and/or government provided health insurance. The excuse that some people go bankrupt because of catastrophic illnesses is not valid to me. Yes, it happens, and I do feel bad for the people it happens to (in most cases).

It is not our governments responsibility to ensure that does not happen. And I would add that it doesn't happen to enough people to make a mandate that everyone buy it or get penalized. Think about what the ACA did... it mandated that you purchase something. No way out of it.

If you don't want to buy home insurance - rent. If you don't want to buy car insurance - take the bus/uber/cab. If you don't want to buy health insurance... too bad, you have to or we fine you. That is wrong, wrong, wrong on so many levels.

Before, people were able to shop for what they wanted/needed.... the ACA has mandates on what your insurance must cover. That's wrong, too.

Can anyone argue that prices, premiums, and copays have not gone up, for most people?

There were winners and losers for sure. Some went up more than they would have others didn't.

I agree with you on much of what you say however. The pre-existing thing bothers me though. We do need a way to not penalize someone who develops a condition especially not of their own doing. My dad could not change jobs because of my brothers condition and I couldn't now because of my heart.

I hate the individual mandate and the whole concept of it. It was one avenue for dealing with the pre-existing issue. You need healthy in the pool to spread the risk of the unhealthy and can not allow folks to come in when they are sick.

I said up front the other way is to hit a reset button, give everyone an avenue in to the pool and allow movement within companies with some tie to a pool (overgeneralizing but there is a way). You wouldn't be forced in, but if you chose not to and got sick you are simply left to pay for it yourself or die if you can not. And we need to be hard core about it. The problem is America is a bunch of softies and we can't or won't do that.

I'm no fan of obama care. Never have been. It does have some good components to it though. My issue is the spaghetti manor in which it was developed and implemented combined with the special interests that bought favors. Its not comprehensive, is rag tag and not well thought out. And the individual mandate is unamerican at best.

There is and has been a bunch of shysters out there selling insurance with no value. It doesn't do much good to the pool to have folks insured with a no value plan. But obammy care went way overboard with it's minimums .



How about a catastrophic only plan (like an umbrella plan) that you can buy into one time and as long as you don't lapse you are ok. If you don't buy in or it lapses you are on your own even if that means death. If you chose to buy anything more than that thats on you or your employer.


I'm ok with that.

Or you could just let everyone buy in to Medicare and make it actuarial y sound rather than the disconnect between paid in and benefit we have now. But that would drive costs up for many too because even though folks think they pay in to it, in no way is premium tied to expenditure and it too is by definition an entitlement program.

AtlasMD...check it out...

This is the key here that I was trying to emphasize.

Currently, we don't let people die.

Everyone gets the 20" tv, even if they chose not to buy a tv. This changes the economics of how a person makes a buying choice.

I don't care about a person's bankruptcy or death. But the bankruptcy screws up the costs for everyone else in the system, and the death is something the hospitals are unwilling to allow to happen, screwing up the costs for everyone else in the system.

Don't get me started on pre-existing conditions. While I agree that sucks to have one, I really really really don't agree with forcing a company to insure without allowing them to take that risk into account. It'd be like forcing casinos to hit on 19. It takes away a lot of the "risk" for the buyer of insurance. I understand why they had to sell off the healthy to the insurance companies to get them to accept that group. Something else needs to be done with pre-existing conditions (and as our genetic testing gets better, I agree with TW that pre-existing conditions are going to start getting identified prenatally) because to pretend we are working on an "insurance" type of model in that case is just fooling ourselves.