The Schumer Shutdown... · Page 12

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victor809
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#221

No... there is a "not more than 6mo" jail time. So class b misdemeanor?

dstieger
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#222

delta, huck, vic.....

I'm perplexed....seems to be a lot of words/effort to suggest that sneaking into the country without permission is no big deal....is that your point?

If so, I seriously doubt that any sort of reasonable debate, or even conversation can result. There's such a fundamental difference between that sentiment and what I (and many here?) feel that we can't even begin any rational discussion.

I maintain that any sovereign nation (especially one as recognized by most other nations) has the right, if not the responsibility to manage the people allowed to enter....if you don't subscribe to that notion, I probably can't debate you

DrafterX
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

8 years ago

#223

Mexicans shoot Guatemalans on their southern border everyday... 😟

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#224

Dstieg... a sovereign nation has the right to do whatever it wants. But if people are going to play the "they are all illegal and breaking the law" then it is important to define specifically what law has been broken and how serious a law it is.

If someone started yelling "illegal driver!" At everyone who sped down the street some may ask what the speed limit is and what the specific law says...

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#225

I stole a chunky bar once in 5th grade. By the time the guilt wore off it melted in my pocket.

HuckFinn wrote:

with or without raisins?

Phil222
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#226

Is anyone else curious as to why being in this country illegally is equal to a parking violation? I wouldn't mind knowing the real answer to that question, but I already have my hypothesis.

DrafterX
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

8 years ago

#227

Thanks Obama..!! 😠

dstieger
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#228

victor809 wrote:

and once you understand what the speed limit is...and you're issued a ticket, because you are, in fact, in violation of the law...do you pay the fine? Or, do you ask your elected representatives to simply let you off the hook....because....because what?

I still don't get it....if you cannot argue that someone here without legal permission to have entered the country is not in violation of some sort of statute or law...then how can we even converse?

Once we've established that there's an objective legal definition and someone is outside of it....then we have agreed that the 'undocumented' person is here illegally -- whether you're willing to actually say those words or not

banderl
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#229

with or without raisins?

frankj1 wrote:

Doesn't it have to have raisins to be a Chunky Bar?

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#230

Why do you think I won't say they are here "illegally"?
You realize that by having a fit over the word "illegal " being used you aren't any better than the people you whine about right?

Both terms "iillegal immigrant" and "undocumented immigrant" appear to be correct. I don't care which anyone uses. Your hangup over the word is your problem not mine.

I simply wanted to know exactly how serious a crime is it in the United States to be so evilly illegal. It appears to be a misdemeanor. That's an important thing to keep in mind when the basis of so many of the arguments against these people start with "OMG they are illegal!"

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#231

Huck's losing it... 🤣

DrafterX wrote:

POS never had it...just $hit. That's all he has.

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#232

As for the traffic voliolation...
There are a number of people on this forum who have bragged about asking friends to let them off the hook.
I believe just recently someone bragged about having an annual police BBQ and how they don't get any moving infractions because of it.

The members of this forum have historically bought and sold and traded Cuban cigars which is probably the same level of crime in the books.... there is little concern for what the "law" is as long as it is convenient. But someone in this country who's not supposed to be? Suddenly the law is super important.

I'm not particularly vested in these DACA people. But I dislike poor arguments.

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#233

I thought you didn't like poor people?

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#234

Why would I have to like poor people for any of my statements to be accurate?

delta1
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#235

Looks like I misread the federal law on illegal entry, looking only at the civil penalties. There are criminal penalties, as victor points out, that call for up to 6 months imprisonment, which makes illegal entry a misdemeanor.

Not arguing that it isn't a crime, I'm just not going so far as to lump most undocumented with rapists and murderers...

Growing up in California, we have become accustomed to two of our primary businesses practically begging local law enforcement to turn a blind eye to illegals because they are the backbone of CA Agra's and CA Tourism's labor pool...both industries consistently say that the illegals are not taking jobs away from Americans, because most Americans who start those jobs usually quit by the end of the next day or so...

I've lived with illegal immigration not being a big deal my whole life, so I guess I'm biased in the direction of ....YAWN... I remember the last time that the issue of immigration became a national issue and was very nearly resolved...President Reagan, the one much beloved by the cons as their greatest President ever, a Californian, proposed an amnesty of sorts...and the talking stopped...

Edited by user 8 years ago | Reason: Not specified

HuckFinn
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#236

dstieger wrote:

I get that. For me debating is a chance to research stuff and get out of my own head, mostly.

American Immigration policy has a pretty cruel and prejudicial history. Just ask the American Chinese population. Or Southern and Eastern Europeans.
Of course sovereign nations have a responsibility to protect their citizenry But when it's been convenient, we've historically turned a blind eye to illegals. Why? Because it benefitted us. Revenue. Laborers. Now we want what? Norwegians? BTW, Norway has cynically renamed itself Shiithole. Not kidding.

I don't want people getting over on us, stealing jobs and opportunities but here we are: these folks are here. Sure our borders need reinforcing as do our laws. Walls are expensive though, and dumb imo.
I'm just trying to look down the road at what it's gonna all look like when we're done.

America will figure it out.

dstieger
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#237

Delta, It is not a big deal to me either. Truly. But it pizzes me off that so many on the left refuse to acknowledge the'illegality' of being here without legal permission....not talking about here so much...I expect illogical rants here...but I want better from my elected representatives and 'expert' commentators

Edited by user 8 years ago | Reason: Not specified

dstieger
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#238

I'm no happier with those on the right who misrepresent state of and effects of 'chain migration', or national security risks pissed by decent illegals

Edited by user 8 years ago | Reason: Not specified

HuckFinn
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#239

Is anyone else curious as to why being in this country illegally is equal to a parking violation? I wouldn't mind knowing the real answer to that question, but I already have my hypothesis.

Phil222 wrote:

If your parents were trying to escape poverty or tyranny or genocide and snuck in, would you'd be asking that same question?
There but for the grace of God go I.

Phil222
Herf-A-Holic

8 years ago

#240

#252 Fair enough. I get the law and order play. We all violate the law in some form. I would just add that a few parking tickets and cuban cigars doesn't cost us hundreds of billions annually and isn't really a threat to national security; unlike illegal immigration. It's hard for me to equate the two but I understand your point.

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