delta1
  • delta1
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
8 years ago
This topic has generated much discussion in another thread about Manafort in the Politics board. It deserves its own space...

The Trump Administration has recently enforced a new immigration policy: zero-tolerance for illegal entry into our country at the border. This policy differs from every other border protection policy because it includes purposely separating children from their parents... separating families when they are apprehended crossing our border illegally, placing them in different detention facilities while awaiting adjudication...either criminal prosecution or asylum hearings...

There are polls showing that there is bi-partisan opposition to this: 2 of 3 Americans are opposed. Politically, many high profile GOP Congressmen and GOP Senators have publicly denounced this procedure, joining near universal condemnation by the Dems...

Is this the right thing to do to secure our borders? America, a country whose foundation is a history of accomplishment by immigrants from all over the world.

Speyside
8 years ago
I find it to be morally bankrupt. At this point I am not concerned about the legality of these actions. I am concerned about law that supersedes our laws, call it Gods law, or the law of humanity depending on your belief system. The children are being used as political pawns. Compassion should overrule all else here. The outrage of Americans should be extreme. I am not advocating for an open border. I am advocating for human decency. Send the illegal aliens home, but don't take their children from them. I honestly see this as a crime against humanity.
cacman
8 years ago
Don't commit the crime if you can't do the time.
frankj1
8 years ago
never, ever take the children.

They are totally innocent, and have just been through turmoil the likes of which many of us could not survive.

If their parents illegally tried to provide safety and freedom in a better country than they left, keep them together during the process that permits expulsion from America. Then send them all back.

If we believe we truly are a better society than any other, we must set a standard for others or it is just feel-good horse chit words.
DrMaddVibe
8 years ago

I find it to be morally bankrupt. At this point I am not concerned about the legality of these actions. I am concerned about law that supersedes our laws, call it Gods law, or the law of humanity depending on your belief system. The children are being used as political pawns. Compassion should overrule all else here. The outrage of Americans should be extreme. I am not advocating for an open border. I am advocating for human decency. Send the illegal aliens home, but don't take their children from them. I honestly see this as a crime against humanity.

Speyside wrote:




Most people nowadays don't even believe in God so we can throw that out the window. It used to be an arbiter that as a society we were measured against. Not any more. Nobody has time for it or doesn't admit it's benefit or are just brave enough to claim they are. People are actually laughed at and in an odd manner persecuted for those beliefs and its ok with today's society. When only one side is going to actually believe then the faith (pardon the pun!) is broken.

There is a real monetary figure associated with this issue. Federal and State budgets are bloated from this issue alone. The state of California has become a poster child of how NOT to do it. There are legal ways to become a citizen. Running for the border of a foreign nation and expecting them to welcome you and shower you with everything is on them, not law-abiding citizens and those wishing to become citizens. What loving parent would dare put their family through that? I'm not even talking about those seeking political asylum either, of which there are some.

After the Elian Gonzalez debacle, I'm pretty much over our government doing anything. In that case they sent in law enforcement in full riot gear armed to the teeth to take away little boy who's mother dared to leave a repressive government for the sake of "Wet Foot/Dry Foot". After seeing Cuba from the shores of Key West (on a clear day!) I wouldn't want to make that treacherous journey and after being on open sea on a sail boat that pretty much cemented it in too! It had to be bad to try. It hasn't gotten any better.

What I see is the DNC looking for a new voting bloc despite the last 8 years of putting children in locked cages and tried to pass it off like it was Trump doing it until they got caught! The GOP isn't any better, however they have tried several times to pass legislation that dies on the vine because there's no assistance from the left on it.

Blaming the current administration for something that legislation needs to be written for is a joke. The last guy just saw his legacy ripped to shreds because of Executive Order decrees. There is a reason why you have to go through the Legislative Branch. There is a reason why you can just sign away all of them too. Being lazy with legislation is serious business with what we can see now, serious outcomes. Where was the gnashing of teeth and the screaming into the cameras then? Complete and utter silence. The Media...the bastion of Free Speech provided political cover and stuck their collective heads in the sand.

So, until both parties are willing to craft common sense legislation this game of tears is going to go on. It's going on all over the globe now too.
teedubbya
8 years ago
This is intentional by this admin. The only change was what the admin wanted to do and they like the result. It could stop immediately, but Trump and his supporters don't want it to.

As for executive orders, isn't that pretty much the only thing this admin has done so far due to a feckless congress?


If this is to be a a deterrent does that mean we need to become worse than the gangs and drug lords many of these people are trying to escape? Yea us.


I know my church is denouncing this, it sounds like the Catholic church is denouncing this..... maybe folks will decide to side with their church rather than blindly following the demagogue of the day

Dark time in this country, one that history will judge harshly... and many are willing accomplices cheering it on
TMCTLT
8 years ago

Don't commit the crime if you can't do the time.

cacman wrote:





^^^^THIS


It's too bad their parents are using them as a political pawn to continue UNFETTERED ILLEGAL ENTRY into OUR country and then try to shame us for wanting....NEEDING our LAWS enforced.


F -em……..and F the churches who took Obama' ( US tax dollars ) if they'd accept and take these illegal invaders only to redistribute them across the entire US. under the cover of darkness
DrafterX
8 years ago
The illegal parents had a couple choices they made that resulted in the separation... If they were concerned about being separated then they shouldn't have made those choices.. if they're not concerned why should I be.. you guys make it sound like, and have even used the word kennel, to make it sound like these kids are being mistreated.. they are not and prolly haven't eaten and dressed so well in years.. [mellow
teedubbya
8 years ago
Keep believing that. It's just a summer camp!

Think how bad things must be for you to pick up and leave your life in a desperate attempt for something better. In many of these cases it involves threats of death from gangs etc. Combine that with language issues, probably education issues as well as probably lack of information (those of us that actually live here are ill informed but they should know whats up?)and it rings hollow to me that they should know better and its their fault. In many cases they are desperately trying to save the lives of themselves and their kids. To pretend that isn't the case to me is being myopic and applying your knowledge base to their situation. A knowledge base they do not have. it's a simple way to justify or make yourself feel better. And of course there are always exceptions and bad hombres.

I do have an issue with us wanting to become worse than what they are trying to escape as a deterrent. Think about what they are trying to escape and what that means.

And no that does not mean let everyone come in willy nilly and no borders. It's not one extreme or the other. Just keep the families together, go through the process, cut the false information campaign fueling the anti immigration rhetoric, and send the majority back as a family while giving the folks that truly need asylum a path.

This is a manufactured crisis.
ZRX1200
8 years ago
Teedunya, the Catholic church is going to condemn it.

The make MILLIONS housing refugees in America.

Al, it ain't 1866. We need to know and control who is coming here. Period. I would add that this is actually something that the government is charged with.
fiddler898
8 years ago

Don't commit the crime if you can't do the time.

cacman wrote:



And the crime committed by these kids who are doing the time is...

Go ahead, we'll wait.
ZRX1200
8 years ago
Their parents choice ^
teedubbya
8 years ago

Teedunya, the Catholic church is going to condemn it.

The make MILLIONS housing refugees in America.

Al, it ain't 1866. We need to know and control who is coming here. Period. I would add that this is actually something that the government is charged with.

ZRX1200 wrote:




Nowhere do I suggest not controlling who comes here. That's a non starter with me. Keep the families together and start the process. Kill the disinformation campaign and propaganda creating boogie men.

As for the catholic church, I'm not a huge fan or an enemy. But if you can discount them in this instance because you think they are money grubbing then you are in a different place than I. My church is condemning this and I don't hear any talk of it being financially driven. I think that is nonsense for the Catholics.

There is no way these parents know what you know or think how you think. They come from a very different place. Projecting what you know on to them lacks any sense of basic empathy (not directed at ZRX).

Protect our borders. But this is unnecessary and something we will all be ashamed of ultimately. (Ok some will never be ashamed of it but they are the minority)
bgz
  • bgz
  • Herf-A-Holic
8 years ago
I've always wished they did more to curb illegal immigration. For years, it seems most people I've talked to felt at least partially the same way.

From what I can tell, illegal immigration has always been a bipartisan issue. The republicans wanted the cheap labor, the democrats wanted the extra votes... so nothing ever got done.

What happens when someone steps up and actually tries to do something about it? Both sides start pleading to the bleeding hearts... it's still a bipartisan issue.

All the elites want illegals to come pouring in.

As far as them separating people at the border... most the kids in the camp came without parents where the parents threw them on the truck hoping they could get through after the kids got in.

They come here because historically it's been easier to get in here than other countries they could possibly sneak into and the penalties are... well, with all the sanctuary cities... no penalties, but BENEFITS!

So, I have no sympathy for them. We have enough people in this country to worry about, we don't need more illegals clogging up our schools and chewing up our tax dollars.

Our immigration laws are some of the most lax in the world, it's about time someone did something about it. You can claim how horrible it is or what ever, but Trump is the first president I ever seen who actually tried to do something about it. We can argue about his methods or what ever, but I'll take this over doing nothing any day of the week.
TMCTLT
8 years ago

Keep believing that. It's just a summer camp!

Think how bad things must be for you to pick up and leave your life in a desperate attempt for something better. In many of these cases it involves threats of death from gangs etc. Combine that with language issues, probably education issues as well as probably lack of information (those of us that actually live here are ill informed but they should know whats up?)and it rings hollow to me that they should know better and its their fault. In many cases they are desperately trying to save the lives of themselves and their kids. To pretend that isn't the case to me is being myopic and applying your knowledge base to their situation. A knowledge base they do not have. it's a simple way to justify or make yourself feel better. And of course there are always exceptions and bad hombres.

I do have an issue with us wanting to become worse than what they are trying to escape as a deterrent. Think about what they are trying to escape and what that means.

And no that does not mean let everyone come in willy nilly and no borders. It's not one extreme or the other. Just keep the families together, go through the process, cut the false information campaign fueling the anti immigration rhetoric, and send the majority back as a family while giving the folks that truly need asylum a path.

This is a manufactured crisis.

teedubbya wrote:




OR....think about ALL THE F'n FREEBIES that will be ROLLED OUT @ tax payer expense for their enjoyment....FREEBIES that we do not necessarily offer to born and raised Americans. My heart doesn't bleed. There ARE many Latinos who are rightfully so mote upset than those of us here....they went through our countries process for gaining citizenship and actually TAKE PRIDE in having done so....
teedubbya
8 years ago

OR....think about ALL THE F'n FREEBIES that will be ROLLED OUT @ tax payer expense for their enjoyment....FREEBIES that we do not necessarily offer to born and raised Americans. My heart doesn't bleed. There ARE many Latinos who are rightfully so mote upset than those of us here....they went through our countries process for gaining citizenship and actually TAKE PRIDE in having done so....

TMCTLT wrote:




It's sad you actually believe that. I'm sure there are some in that boat but I don't think its the majority or even close to it.
opelmanta1900
8 years ago
If me and my wife committed a crime tomorrow, serious enough that we had to serve a few months, do the kids go with me to jail or with my wife to jail? Or do we all get locked up in the same cell in the name of keeping families together?

As for the argument that these people are fleeing violence and chaos and just looking for anything better, i think that's mostly bs... if things were so unlivable, everyone would flee, not just a dozen here, a dozen there... I'm not saying it's a great life, just that it isn't "join a cartel or die" like some media might have you believe...

Also, there are a lot of nice places between central America and America... Mexico city for instance... any idea why these poor immigrants who just want a better life don't stop there instead of traveling several hundred more miles to our country?

Finally, as for the catholic church, wgaf what their position is? You're talking about a group of professional pedophiles and pedophile protectors... why would anyone care what they think should be happening to children?
ZRX1200
8 years ago
Go ahead and direct it at me teedubya. They can take empathy and shove it up their asses. They're getting three hot's and a cot, tv, video games, soccer......their parents made a choice. MORE of these kids are sent BY THEMSELVES. But hey that doesn't bring the faux sympathy that this POLITICAL MANUEVER does. You are witnessing the democrats announce a wedge issue for the next cycle.

The US takes in 2/3rd of the world's refugees.

You want to pretend that the "asylum" seekers are going to the nearest available country? No theyre coming here for A BETTER LIFE and that my friend is IT. Not asylum.
DrafterX
8 years ago
TMCTLT
8 years ago

If me and my wife committed a crime tomorrow, serious enough that we had to serve a few months, do the kids go with me to jail or with my wife to jail? Or do we all get locked up in the same cell in the name of keeping families together?

As for the argument that these people are fleeing violence and chaos and just looking for anything better, i think that's mostly bs... if things were so unlivable, everyone would flee, not just a dozen here, a dozen there... I'm not saying it's a great life, just that it isn't "join a cartel or die" like some media might have you believe...

Also, there are a lot of nice places between central America and America... Mexico city for instance... any idea why these poor immigrants who just want a better life don't stop there instead of traveling several hundred more miles to our country?

Finally, as for the catholic church, wgaf what their position is? You're talking about a group of professional pedophiles and pedophile protectors... why would anyone care what they think should be happening to children?

opelmanta1900 wrote:




Joel, very well stated. And IF the crime you and your wife committed was entering a country illegally (depending on the country ) you may never live to tell your story....

SPOT ON HERE AS WELL!!!!!





It's sad you actually believe that. I'm sure there are some in that boat but I don't think its the majority or even close to it.

teedubbya wrote:





Not nearly as sad as you believing the line of crap your being fed by the media and the elites....by all means....eat up!! Just don't ask me to join you for that **** sammich
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