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delta1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#61

we should and could do a better job of securing our borders and controlling who gains entry...we also should and could do a better job of tracking those who have gained temporary visas and stay after the visa expires. That second group now exceeds border crossers in the total number of illegals....

But significant segments of our economy, actual profit-making businesses: agriculture, construction, hotels/restaurants, rely on undocumented workers doing work that Americans don't want to do. Compounding this problem is that Americans demand low cost produce, lower housing costs and lower hotel and restaurant bills...

we are all complicit in the problem and must all contribute to the solution...too easy to point fingers...

do we (can we?) want to do something as drastic as compulsory farm/housekeeping/dishwashing work for those on welfare?

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#62

should we ask ourselves if we actually want to leave it like this and just put the onus on employers to withhold taxes?
Look at how much crap we import and buy from countries, mainly China, that keep costs down in much harsher ways.

Just tossing that out there.

Speyside
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#63

Frank, there are many illegal aliens that do pay all taxes. There is a percentage of jobs that are not cash jobs. It is not uncommon for one legal immigrant to let many illegal aliens to use his/her social security number for tax purposes. Based off of federal IRS information many illegal aliens could be rounded up and deported. John Doe has 32 full time jobs, hmmmmm could be 31 illegal aliens? This in no way would improve border security, but it is certainly information that should be made available to ICE. Plus, where does the constitution even remotely lend creedence to the dry feet concept? I see absolutly no constitutional support to deportation trials for illegal aliens.

Speyside
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#64

Now lets follow the money. Make the penalty for hiring illegal aliens so onerous that every employer will demand enough multiple forms of documentation that they have made a serious attempt to verify citizenship or legal immigrant status. As long as we are at it let's do something similar for expired work visas. Again, this is not a substitute for border security.

Also, there is no linkage between outdated immigration policy and illegal aliens. A criminal act is a criminal act. Illegal aliens are criminals.

Speyside
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#65

Now let's improve border security as much as needed. Experts can determine how to do this. I am open to all ideas on how to do this.

Now, and only now would I be ready for immigration reform. And here I do not want more unskilled laborers than we need. But I do want skilled people that will help our country as well as being assets to our country.

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#66

how easy or difficult is it to hire unskilled laborers in recent years?

delta1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#67

in CA, quite tough, according to owners of the big farms here...sorta explains the uneasy truce between libs and cons over the illegal immigrant issue and the common practice of sanctuary cities up and down the state

RMAN4443
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#68

yeah, me too.
so many pay to create a record of paying taxes in hopes of establishing "good character" as they may one day apply for citizenship.

I'm assuming (don't feel like researching right now) that they are also paying into Social Security that they may never be eligible to collect.

frankj1 wrote:

I work with dozens of LEGAL citizens, not to mention my kids and their families(or possibly myself), who will never be eligible to collect SS...which is deemed to be an "entitlement", and not something that you've paid into your whole life, and was supposed to be there when you retired.

The list of "entitlements" is at the link below...note that SS and Medicare(contributory programs), are right there alongside Medicaid and Welfare(NON contributory programs)

http://federalsafetynet.com/entitlement-programs.html

Whew!!!! Where did that come from??😲

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#69

RMAN4443 wrote:

I do know it isn't an investment program but rather current workers paying for today's retirees...but why won't you get it?
asking before clicking the link...

RMAN4443
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#70

I do know it isn't an investment program but rather current workers paying for today's retirees...but why won't you get it?
asking before clicking the link...

frankj1 wrote:

I still have about 7 or so years before I can retire, I just look "mature" for my age 😰
and I keep hearing how SS is unsustainable, and they're going to have to cut back on SS and the "entitlement programs" and I just figure when I get to the window they're gonna put up the SOLD OUT sign.....

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#71

RMAN4443 wrote:

I'm dubious. Jump in at 66.5. You'll still be able to work and earn all you want.
It was always supposed to be a supplement, after all.

tailgater
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#72

I was referencing the large corporations...I suspect somehow the illegals are paying taxes

frankj1 wrote:

Which large corporations are hiring illegals?

delta1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#73

here's an article about the prospect of Social Security's demise.

https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-answers/how-much-longer-will-social-security-be-around/

It is worrisome, but not an imminent catastrophe...I remember in its healthier days, plenty of greedy Wall Street types were pushing for privatizing it, presumably to raid the trust...not so much anymore...but we have time to fix it...

nowadays, we're taking out more to pay benefits than we're putting in, exhausting the trust fund...AARP analysts (trust these folks for looking out for foggies) say it'll last til 2035, paying out from the trust fund...then payments will be paid from taxes collected, but that isn't sustainable unless some adjustments are made...some adjustments are built-in, with the most obvious increasing full retirement age

I'm thinking that the system's investment goal of 8% is too conservative...should aim higher to generate more income...
increase income level caps so higher income amounts can be taxed...
reduce benefits over a five-10 years years by freezing annual COLA...
adjust benefits by considering income levels of recipients...with wealthiest folks having benefits cut by up to 40%

tailgater
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#74

But significant segments of our economy, actual profit-making businesses: agriculture, construction, hotels/restaurants, rely on undocumented workers doing work that Americans don't want to do.

delta1 wrote:

That is a reason for better management of work visas and immigration quotas.
It's not an excuse to allow illegal immigration.

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#75

Which large corporations are hiring illegals?

tailgater wrote:

will you feel better if I say big industries instead?

Though I have first hand (well, second hand really from the site manager who assigned the workers) knowledge about Trump companies in NYC...but this isn't really about him.

delta1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#76

That is a reason for better management of work visas and immigration quotas.
It's not an excuse to allow illegal immigration.

tailgater wrote:

agree 100%

tailgater
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#77

agree 100%

delta1 wrote:

You just want me to buy you a beer this coming week.

tailgater
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#78

frankj1 wrote:

Certain industries absolutely hire illegals.

I called you out on "large corporations" because it's inaccurate.
So it's not that I'd "feel better". But that your comment would be accurate.
And what good is a tripod if he's not a straight shooter?

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#79

That is a reason for better management of work visas and immigration quotas.
It's not an excuse to allow illegal immigration.

tailgater wrote:

agree, not a reason to allow law breaking activity...which is why I asked if maybe current laws are not designed to give us what we really want.

You list a couple of good starting points if we do want it the way the laws are written, in the meantime how can we catch, fine heavily, and force those employers (who are pretty much recruiting them) to pay the taxes until something changes?

take away the bait and the rest might fix itself...unless we discover our economy might actually be built on the backs of cheap labor. I've never been in a position to know for sure. But obviously I suspect it must be the reason it happens.

do most of us at least agree most illegals risk life because they want to work here, not for free hot breakfast? Can we get a win/win from it?

I've been self employed but was never a business man.

delta1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#80

You just want me to buy you a beer this coming week.

tailgater wrote:

nope...I very rarely drink anymore...so I'll buy you the beer and a cigar...you can buy me an iced tea...

where you gonna be and how much time do you have?

Edited by user 6 years ago | Reason: Not specified

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