victor809
Monday, April 6, 2020 4:27:14 PM

What way does hurting the economy cost lives. I am curious. Please be specific. I am tired of the idiotic clams that using non proved medications for COVID 19 medicines can't hurt anyone. Tell that to people with Lupus who can't buy their medicine. Now telling me that hurting the economy kills is another idiotic idea. Back it up with facts, not internet rambling, or political sabre rattling, but facts. Oh, by the way to date these untested for COVID 19 medications have not proved that they make a numerical improvent and that is a FACT!

Speyside wrote:

I mean, everything else being equal, poverty will cause some people to die.

There are a lot of people who have lost all income due to this pandemic, it's not impossible to imagine that some of them either 1 - can't afford their medication necessary to stay alive, or 2 - may get some injury or illness during the time they are unemployed, which they cannot afford to address, and put off until it's fatal (an easy example may be people putting off going to the Dr for something which turns out to be a cancer they could have treated if they went when it was early stage)

The problem is, in the real world there's always a bit of everything.

Tanking the economy to reduce a pandemic impact, or letting a pandemic hit full-blast, there's going to be those people on the margins who will take it in the shorts regardless

victor809
Monday, April 6, 2020 4:28:01 PM
ah, puddin' got to it before I did
teedubbya
Monday, April 6, 2020 4:37:22 PM
Well the vaccine is obvious. To be completely honest (eliminating the I hope stuff and relying on the I know stuff) I don’t really think any magical treatment of any scale will beat the immunization out. But it could. I’m shocked Bill Gates is as intimately familiar with this. I figured he just threw coin at it but he really knows his stuff.

I’d heard some anecdotal reinfection rumors from sources I don’t trust. It is possible. I’d like to see that South Korea data you point to because I’ve not seen anything legitimate confirming that and have direct access to that sort of thing.

Also as an aside, for what it’s worth I’m seeing lots of cases where folks got worse and died on the malaria drug (not just from danm but many cases folks I know are treating) but again it is anecdotal and I put as much weight in it in as the other direction. It’s not a matter of believe or feel to me. This is medicine and science. My hope (back to hope not know) is for a couple other treatments.

Some of the media and the president are playing with fire on the medical front. It’s not their wheelhouse. But they will just pretend they didn’t later and folks will go along with it.

Speyside
Monday, April 6, 2020 5:03:05 PM
Victor, you say some on the margins. How does this compare to the numbers if shelter in place was not mandated. The real question is will slowing the infection rate lower the death count. If it does then it was the correct choice, if not then it wasnt. But this logicless BS needs to end. I know you are shaking it up to get some chuckles, but you of all people know assumptions without data are pure BS.
victor809
Monday, April 6, 2020 5:11:07 PM

Victor, you say some on the margins. How does this compare to the numbers if shelter in place was not mandated. The real question is will slowing the infection rate lower the death count. If it does then it was the correct choice, if not then it wasnt. But this logicless BS needs to end. I know you are shaking it up to get some chuckles, but you of all people know assumptions without data are pure BS.

Speyside wrote:

Like I said before, "everything else being equal". I was careful to avoid comparing the two situations, because I think a lot of the same people (or different subsets of the same general group, "people living paycheck to paycheck") will die in either situation.

I don't know how they compare, or would compare. But it's fair to say that people will die from massive economic turbulence. It's also fair to say people will die from general stay at home/isolation procedures. And it's fair to say that people will die from letting the coronavirus run unchecked.

Anyone saying they know which choice will have the fewest people die, or the lowest economic impact, or both, is lying to you. About the only part of this that we've got an understanding on is the disease modeling. I don't think anyone understands the full financial implications of any of the possible choices.

delta1
Monday, April 6, 2020 5:12:35 PM
opening up for business without knowing which people in your workforce are infected is dangerous to the long term health of the company, and if done on a nationwide scale is flirting with an actual disaster...

who knows which/ or how many of your employees will get sick and die...what if it is a key person who is the tentpole of the operation?

it makes economic sense to test them all before going back to work until a vaccine is developed...and decide whether or not to open while quarantining the positives

wonder if UK PM BoJo now regrets listening to the experts who told him to leave everything open and let nature takes its course?

Speyside
Monday, April 6, 2020 5:31:22 PM
Also, the economic modeling of this being allowed to run rampant is truely frightening. The economic modeling using firm shelter in place is bad, but significantly less so. On the other hand we would lose more of the fringe and stupid so there is that.
Speyside
Monday, April 6, 2020 5:36:02 PM
Ok, now I get what you are saying. I mistakenly tied what you are saying to mittens which was inaccurate. I will try to find the financial modeling I found earlier and post a link here. It was interesting to say the least. The worst case scenario is truely frightening.
teedubbya
Monday, April 6, 2020 5:47:50 PM
I heard peter Navarro is doing trumps prostate exam next year
delta1
Monday, April 6, 2020 5:50:57 PM
he's gonna use his head instead of a finger...
teedubbya
Monday, April 6, 2020 6:01:58 PM
His update are worthless
teedubbya
Monday, April 6, 2020 6:03:05 PM
And he just lied again
MACS
Monday, April 6, 2020 6:15:25 PM
I think it's safe to say that few of us actually trust the government in just about anything.

Aaaaand here we are allowing the government to dictate our every move... or lack of movement. Shutting down private business. Dictating procedures to the ones 'they' deem necessary.

I get it. It's serious. It's got me nervous now and if I've been exposed to it, so have my wife and BIL. I don't have a travel trailer to shelter in. All I have is my house.

Sacrificing freedom for safety... pretty sure Ben Franklin said we deserve neither.

Speyside
Monday, April 6, 2020 6:19:34 PM
Do your truely ever expect him not to lie? I hope for him not to lie, but expect him to lie. All that his press briefings are is free publicity for campaign really issues. Do yourself a favor, pour a drink, consider it the Donald Trump variety hour, and everyone on the show is a lier.
teedubbya
Monday, April 6, 2020 6:31:03 PM
Been reading a lot about smallpox lately and went off on a tangent reading about Franklin last week. He was pro inoculation but his kid didn’t get one and died. There is a theory he fled to England to escape the plague the colonies couldn’t get their arms around.
teedubbya
Monday, April 6, 2020 6:31:13 PM
all Of a sudden OIG is biased politically and you must ignore their findings.

Unreal.

frankj1
Monday, April 6, 2020 10:33:13 PM

Course not. But it's also not lives vs dollars.

People dying or being hospitalized en mass also costs money. Treating 100k people all at once costs more than treating 20k every 2 weeks over the course of 2 months (or however it would be dragged out) because scaling up the necessary medical equipment is a resource cost.

People being hospitalized in huge amounts is a large disruption to our economy. These are people who may not be insured, will not be able to make their rent or mortgage payments etc etc.

Like I said. If it was just "let some extra people die and be able to keep the economy trucking along" I'd throw all you old and/or co-morbid people under the economy bus... (except frank, we'll keep frank quarantined for our nation's good). But someone made good arguments to me that letting a bunch of people die/get sick in the short term will still have the economic chaos we're seeing now, but with extra added medical chaos.

victor809 wrote:

I've been contacted about the expected need to repopulate...and I am a Patriot.

teedubbya
Monday, April 6, 2020 10:58:59 PM
Patriots settle for BJs. Hard to procreate that way.
frankj1
Monday, April 6, 2020 11:01:16 PM
fluffin' ain't for finishin'
izonfire
Monday, April 6, 2020 11:02:52 PM
With TB in TB, not a good time to be a Patriot...