rfenst
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4 years ago

Seriously, is there any compelling reason to discuss sex with grade school students, other than grooming them?

Gene363 wrote:


Yes. I believe human reproduction biology (not sex/sexuality/alleged "grooming") should be taught in schools in higher grades (like fifth grade and on). Just for like 30-60 minutes or so or by standardized movie or video. And, the boys and girls can be separated, as is the usual way it's done.

The bill doesn't say anything about "don't say gay", but it could penalize teachers for merely acknowledging that some kids have two dads or two moms when the subject is brought up solely by the student, or the like.

If the subject of families comes up in third grade and little Johnny raises his hand and says "my family has two dads, what should the teacher do? Ask him to leave the class for innocently bringing up a harmless topic? Kick him out in to the hallway Or, put him in the corner with a dunce cap?

Should a grade school teacher be penalized, fined, fired and/or prosecuted because a child in the classroom sys he /she has two dads?

Any teacher who acknowledges out loud that little Johnny's family differs in response to him few second risks there career now.

And, over what? An answer in search of a problem.
rfenst
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4 years ago

Woke Disney says "reimagine tomorrow" where there are no more "ladies," "gentlemen," "boys," and "girls", that "magical moment" where “dreamers of all ages” will be free from that stifling stranglehold of carbon unit based biology.

As O'Bummer would say, that is CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!

RayR wrote:


What's the matter, Ray?
Never brought your kids down with the family to have a nice vacation and a good time?
Speyside2
4 years ago
Also, if any school staff member is told by a student that they are not heterosexual the staff member by law must report this and the parents must be informed.
rfenst
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4 years ago

There's very little in the way of unions, benefits and pensions. They've abdicated those decades ago.

DrMaddVibe wrote:



Toatally innacurate.

"Are Disney World cast members unionized?

STCU is the largest union associated with Disney, and represents over 30,000 Disney cast members."
rfenst
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4 years ago
Understanding Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' Bill

A conservative movement to restrict objectionable curricula and educational materials began about a year ago, when groups began targeting "critical race theory." They then expanded their aim to objectionable books in school libraries. In both areas, Republican lawmakers joined the crusade by passing laws giving parents greater power over what goes on in local schools.

Now activists have a new target: classroom discussions about sexual orientation. And with the Florida Senate's recent passage of a bill that would restrict those discussions in the state's public schools, the combat is certain to intensify elsewhere.

The Florida Bill
That bill, titled Parental Rights in Education, states that lessons about sexual orientation are banned outright in kindergarten through third grade. It also prohibits lessons in other grades unless they are "age-appropriate and developmentally appropriate."

The measure, which would give parents the right to sue school districts, awaits Gov. Ron DeSantis' signature. It is scheduled to go into effect on July 1.

The bill's supporters say it strengthens parental rights by preventing teachers and school staffers from withholding information about gender issues from parents. (An earlier version of the bill went even further, requiring principals to tell parents if a student came out as other than straight. That provision was pulled last month.)

Opposition to the bill has been fierce. Democrats and LGBTQIA supporters, who have derisively dubbed it the "Don't Say Gay" bill, say the law would stigmatize marginalized students and lead to bullying and attacks.

Other States Poised to Follow
Nevertheless, other states are considering similar measures. The free-speech organization PEN America is tracking the issue and counts 15 proposals in nine states. Here are some examples:

A bill in Kansas would make it a misdemeanor for any teacher who uses materials depicting homosexuality in any way, not just if the depiction is sexually explicit or celebratory.

Tennessee is considering a bill that would prohibit schools from using any books or instructional materials that mention "gay, bi-sexual, or transgender issues or lifestyles" in any way.

Indiana's House Bill 1040 would prohibit teachers from discussing in any context "sexual orientation," "transgenderism," or "gender identity" without parental consent.

Constitutional Issues?
The opposition to these efforts is fueled by indignation at what they perceive as the sheer meanness of these bills. But opponents also make a constitutional argument. They contend that muzzling classroom speech of teachers may run afoul of the First Amendment.

When it comes to teachers in public schools, however, this is not a black-and-white issue. Public school teachers have limited First Amendment rights. School districts make the decision on curricula, and teachers must follow it. Therefore, the argument that the bills are posing unconstitutional limits on public school teachers may not hold up because teachers are already limited in what they can say.

But as Clay Calvert, the director of the Marion B. Brechner First Amendment Project at the University of Florida, told Changing America, the "Don't Say Gay" law could have a "chilling effect." Teachers may be inclined to censor themselves for fear of retribution by parents who might even sue.

Students Have Power
But this does not mean there is not a constitutional issue involved with laws like the "Don't Say Gay" bill. The issue is the free-speech rights of the students.

In 1969, the U.S. Supreme Court made it abundantly clear in Tinker v. Des Moines School Dist. that students of every age have First Amendment rights. Calvert says that means students have the right to sue if their discussions or questions about sexual identity are stifled.

"You can imagine a child who is questioning their sexual orientation at a young age and then being shut down by a teacher who says, 'Well, by law, unfortunately, we can't encourage discussion of this,'" Calvert said.

"It's a complex issue because it really is about how much a state legislative body can do to limit speech and limit expression in the classroom," he added.

In other words, when DeSantis signs the "Don't Say Gay" bill into law, look for an immediate constitutional challenge.


https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/understanding-floridas-dont-say-gay-bill/ 
ZRX1200
4 years ago
Tell me you don’t know how far the culture war has gone without telling me you don’t know how far the culture war has gone….

If you think K-3rd grade need to learn about this stuff you might be part of the problem.
Speyside2
4 years ago
Good update Robert. I am glad they took out the must inform part.
rfenst
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4 years ago

Tell me you don’t know how far the culture war has gone without telling me you don’t know how far the culture war has gone….

If you think K-3rd grade need to learn about this stuff you might be part of the problem.

ZRX1200 wrote:


No one teaches reproduction in third grade. And, if some innocent third grader brings something non-heterosexual up and the teacher responds improperly, he/she could get sued and fired? Merely acknowledging the statement without even addressing it shouldn't be a problem in 2022, unless one is in search of a solution for a problem that doesn't exist or that isn't really that great . And, yes, I want to be a problem to small minded, fearful people, who believe in this kind of B.S. It is not "grooming" and won't make/turn any kid gay (god forbid).
rfenst
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4 years ago

Good update Robert. I am glad they took out the must inform part.

Speyside2 wrote:


Yeah, I am too. Like some kid in third-grade needs to be ratted-out for inquiring or expressing themselves.
HockeyDad
4 years ago

Yes. I believe human reproduction biology (not sex/sexuality/alleged "grooming") should be taught in schools in higher grades (like fifth grade and on). Just for like 30-60 minutes or so or by standardized movie or video. And, the boys and girls can be separated, as is the usual way it's done.

rfenst wrote:



So you’re in favor of the law?!

If it is an answer in search of a problem, why are some people so outraged? It would imply that they think not being able to freely teach sexuality to K-3 is a huge deal.
Sunoverbeach
4 years ago
I had one girlfriend, she had one of them "recto-mies." You know, that's where they scoop the pu$$y out and leave the box it came in. We got along just fine. She didn't want nothin' from me, and I sure didn't want nothin' from her.
- RP
HockeyDad
4 years ago

I had one girlfriend, she had one of them "recto-mies." You know, that's where they scoop the pu$$y out and leave the box it came in. We got along just fine. She didn't want nothin' from me, and I sure didn't want nothin' from her.
- RP

Sunoverbeach wrote:



Get off this thread with your spam.
RayR
4 years ago

So you’re in favor of the law?!

If it is an answer in search of a problem, why are some people so outraged? It would imply that they think not being able to freely teach sexuality to K-3 is a huge deal.

HockeyDad wrote:



I think Robert is being a bit naive. He believes "human reproduction biology (not sex/sexuality/alleged "grooming") should be taught in schools in higher grades (like fifth grade and on)".
The WOKE leftist authoritarians don't care what he believes because in the woke socialist schools the fundamental doctrine is the state and the teacher's unions own the children's minds and bodies and so they assume the absolute right to decide how the children are groomed mentally and sexually at the exclusion of what the parent's or any other concerned party desires or demands.
Sunoverbeach
4 years ago

Get off this thread with your spam.

HockeyDad wrote:


You're not the boss of me now
You're not the boss of me now
You're not the boss of me now, and you're not so big
Life is unfair
frankj1
4 years ago

Get off this thread with your spam.

HockeyDad wrote:


Dude!
It's Richard Pryor!!
rfenst
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4 years ago

So you’re in favor of the law?!

If it is an answer in search of a problem, why are some people so outraged? It would imply that they think not being able to freely teach sexuality to K-3 is a huge deal.

HockeyDad wrote:


I am not in favor of reproduction being taught to third graders.

But, they definitely should see "the movie" in fifth or sixth grade, and again in eighth or ninth grade biology, just like I and my kids did. Separate the boys from the girls if it will make it better. And, parents should be allowed to review "the movie" in advance and opt their child out-should they wish.

Sexuality being taught in public school is a completely different subject because homosexuality is not part of reproduction. But, simply acknowledging some third grader speaking out on his or her own and handling it properly by trying to get it back on track, should not jeopardize anyone.

And, if the third grade kid just can't stop talking about his or her two dads or two mom's, who is really going to be truly damaged by it? Not to mention that one would still have the opportunity to indoctrinate their kids against or in favor of homosexuality, should that be their personal choice.

When they get to high school and the class is going to read a book that involves a gay character, they ought to be fortified enough to handle it, but if they can't or their parents don't want them to, they should be allowed to opt out.

So, why do I think people are so outraged? The vast majority aren't. It is a few, vocal zealots, a majority Republican state legislature who don't dare oppose DeSantis (or Trump) and other political opportunists making a mountain out of a molehill- and claiming victory for the champions of social justice and then defeating it. Just a bunch of chest ponding, if you will.

Desantis never had a mandate from Floridians. He won by a measly 1% (thankfully in retrospect), but that's about it.
rfenst
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4 years ago

I think Robert is being a bit naive. He believes "human reproduction biology (not sex/sexuality/alleged "grooming") should be taught in schools in higher grades (like fifth grade and on)".
The WOKE leftist authoritarians don't care what he believes because in the woke socialist schools the fundamental doctrine is the state and the teacher's unions own the children's minds and bodies and so they assume the absolute right to decide how the children are groomed mentally and sexually at the exclusion of what the parent's or any other concerned party desires or demands.

RayR wrote:


What a sad world it must be to be afraid of so many others, and so many different ideas and ways of doing things. I want to see you teach your child about human reproduction biology better than an experienced, professional, public school system can. Good luck.
Speyside2
4 years ago
Ray, I feel sorry for you.
RayR
4 years ago
You two don't franking get it. You give the WOKE leftist authoritarians an inch and they'll take mile. They're freaks!
They won't be teaching science like human reproduction biology, they'll be teaching pseudoscientific fabrications like gender is a social construct and it's just fine and dandy for men to get pregnant.
It would be like Hitler teaching racial classifications. He did write about indoctrinating yoots after all, saying "whoever has the youth has the future"...through the regimes "experienced, professional, public school system" of course.😂
rfenst
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4 years ago

You two don't franking get it. You give the WOKE leftist authoritarians an inch and they'll take mile. They're freaks!
They won't be teaching science like human reproduction biology, they'll be teaching pseudoscientific fabrications like gender is a social construct and it's just fine and dandy for men to get pregnant.
It would be like Hitler teaching racial classifications. He did write about indoctrinating yoots after all, saying "whoever has the youth has the future"...through the regimes "experienced, professional, public school system" of course.😂

RayR wrote:


Ray, Ray, Ray... Hitler is your favorite rhetorical reference/analogy. It's getting real old. That's because it has nothing to do with anything here, let alone this topic. He exterminated millions of innocent humans. Comparing that to just about anything
is a joke.

Perhaps I do not get it, Ray.

I am built to adapt to change and to fairly consider differing opinions and people in addition to my own, without always feeling threatened or fear of getting $hitted on in life. People and ideas don't scare me.

Why do they scare you?
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