Today's cigar thought- no Rugrunner, it isn't dairy related. 😉

When you hear people talking about 'Middle Class Americans' and their shrinking size because most are falling down the income ladder (and some are climbing too).

Lets say its a Mom, Dad, and two kids scenario.

What does Middle Class Income for a year mean to you in dollars?

ie. 20,000-40,000? 46k-60k? I would like your thoughts.

Thanks.

50,000 to 100,000 for two incomes. I have a friend who is a fireman. His wife is an RN in mpls. they are near the higher end of that.100,000 to 150,000 to me is upper middle class.

Middle class is a broad swath.

What do you define as not middle class?

8Track,

I've never really been able to put a "dollar figure" on middle class. It's hard to give it one since some places are more expensive, etc.

I've always tried to use "property" as a determining who is middle class. In other words, what someone has.

Here's how I define middle class:

1. You own a car, maybe two. One is less than 5 years old, and one is a beater. Neither are luxury, but the newer one is not a compact....it's a sedan.

2. You own your own house or are buying one. If you rent it's because you live in the city.

3. Your kids go to public school.

4. Your kids wear "middle range" name brand clothing such as Nike, Levi's, and Abercrombie and Fitch. Although they do wear non-name brands such as Wal-mart, most of their stuff is as mentioned above. They DO NOT wear designer labels such as Gucci, Louis Vuitton, or Prada.

5. If you work in an office you wear a name-brand suit, but generally an "off the rack" brand. You don't wear a tailored suit that is tailored for you. Your suit range is $200-$400, not the over $2000 range.

6. If you work blue collar, then you earn good money for a good 40 hour week, with overtime and a 401K from your company. You are an honost hard working person.

7. Your wife doesn't have to work, but she might. It's up to her. She can afford to go to school if she wants.

8. You get a vacation once a year and you save for it. You most likely drive to the vacation, because airfare is expensive.

9. You make enough to put some away, but generally you don't. For some reason, you are constantly finding yourself paycheck to paycheck. You worry about money, but know you'll always have food.

10. You can afford to buy cigars, but probably shouldn't.

Anyway, that's sort of how I see middle class......

Oh, and I don't think it is necessarily tied to income, as it is to net worth. 2 families with 200K income for 5 years could end up entirely differently. One likes spending, one doesn't.

At the end it is what you are worth, not what you are bringing in.

They like Chocolate 2% milk and Neapolitan ice cream. They prefer salted butter to not. And use low fat cheese. Finally, non dairy whipped topping on pie!

I know that's what you really wanted to know!

mrtelcom,

I guess that is kind of my point. I don't know how to help you come to a determination, because I don't want to try to help you form an opinion.

Forget net worth. Think of it this way. Let's say there are only 3 classes of people.... Lower Class, Middle Class and Upper class.

The Lower Class makes 0-$XXXX. What does a middle class husband and wife (both working or not) make in a year?

Or if you like to breakdown things deeper (lower middle, middle middle, upper middle) what does a Middle, Middle class person make in your eyes?

Does that help with the calculations?

Oh and thank you for the answers so far. Keep em coming. I find them interesting.

And Adroomi, thank you. I truly appreciate your thoughtful answer (even though we are feuding on another thread).

I've got lot's of class and a big middle. I think that qualifies me.

I suppose it depends on where you live. 50k here (WI) vs 50k in California vs 50k in New York.

Because the cost of living varies so much from area to area, dollar amounts cannot be assigned, in my opinion.

Just my .02

Deb

I think Adroomi hit it right on the head with his description.....

As I was reading that I kept saying to myself...Yep thats us...

Pssst...dont tell my 13yr old daughter that I got some of her school clothes from Wal-Mart, she'll throw a Hissy fit...

TANK

wow for the first time i can agreee with an Adroomi post, lol.

you hit it on the head Adroomi.

incomes vary as do dollar value on purchases so much from state to state. the union scale for my trade is under 20$ an hour in wisconsin, but here in chicago it is almost double that.

wes

Yeah, nice thread 8Track.

Also keep in mind the debt load.

Despite the fact that we are thought of as being "rich" by the rest of the world and by many of our elected officials, some Americans have HUGE debt loads that probably skew their class standing.

For instance an upper middle class single earner (100k+) would probably qualify as solid to lower middle class after you consider his mortgage, car loan(s), credit card debt, business, and day to day living expenses (sans vacations, expensive meals out, etc.).

In other words, if you are over-extended in credit or have dependents with special needs, you may have the false illusion of prosperity when you get your paycheck. Our Government may want to keep that in mind...

Therefore, IMO, class "standing" is difficult to gauge.

A middle class earner (50k) may have a more solid financial base than an upper class (pardon the expression) earner (100k+) and thus be better off.

I'm in the class of "Fat around the middle American"

My poor fat Ash

Me?...upper class white trash...lol... but I look good with a series R #6 in my fingers. Been seen with an occasional opus X.

Damn Adroomi,

I always considered Ambercrombie & Fitch to be relegated to the upper middle class, on the cusp of upper class. Let me explain.

My folks are your typical 1950's archetype. Dad worked and mom stayed home and raised the kids. My dad averaged $250K a year while I grew up. They drove buicks and wore clothes from Sears, JcPenny, Marshalls, etc. We didn't go on extravagant vacations, usually just drove to San Diego for a weekend.

On those trips to San Diego, we always visited Horton Plaza. There is an A&F at Horton Plaza. I would walk in with my Dad and see what they had to offer. I would usually get a kick outta lookin' at their prices. $60-$80 for a pair of jeans, $40-$60 for shirts, etc. To me, that place is reserved for "upper" class people. If middle class people are shopping there, it's because they are loading their credit cards to the max.

I guess it's all relative. My wife and I earn around $110K a year. I drive a '96 volvo wagon, she drives the new '94 Honda odyssey we lease. Both my kids will goto public shcools. The funds will be there for them to goto college if they so choose.

I definitely consider myself middle class, at least at the bottom cusp of it. I live in a nice neighborhood, in a small city, with a very good school district. My mortgage payment is $3200 a month, the cost of living in a city with fairly low crime, good schools, and such.

My wife and I shop at Steinmart so we can get good clothes at cheap prices. When I want new shoes, I goto Big 5 and get sneakers for $20 or less. The day I walk into an A&F to go shopping, is the day I win the lotto.

So to answer the original question, the amount earned in order to qualify as middle class depends on where you live. In So Cal, $100K is the bare minimum to be middle class in my opinion. $300K is the higher end of middle class.

jcwbnimble.

Middle class is also dependant on where you live

In the DC metro area or Boston or New York 100K to 150K (two income)could be considered middle class due to cost of housing, food, insurance, cost of living etc

In Nebraska, Iowa or South Dakota 30K to 60K )also two income) could be considered middle class

Wow, I agree with adroomi about something!

Here is a good example: I built a house with my ex-wife 13 years ago. Where I live, the house I wanted to build was estimated by 4 builders. The price range was from 195k to 230k. We ended up building the house for 210k. The community where we saw the home, was about 50 miles away. There the same house, with 2x4 construction, and plastic windows started at 425k. We built it with 2x6's Anderson windows, and many other ammenities for alot less. Things do differ, and how much you make is RELATIVE to where you live, and the actual cost of living.

Greg