Brewha
3 years ago

The new definition of “rolling coal” is trains carrying coal to power plants to produce EV fuel!

HockeyDad wrote:


Is that some of that "clean coal" I heard tell about.....

😂
Stogie1020
3 years ago

one of the largest if not the largest developer/retail landlord in the New England (malls, large office buildings, combo lab/residential/retail etc) just signed a couple hydro-electric deals for renewable power for its new developments.

WS Development.

frankj1 wrote:


Help me understand this Frank (I looked at a few articles but they were all fluff pieces or PR releases).

Is NRG building new hydro plant specifically to handle the WS developments or is this hydro-power already on the grid, and WS is simply saying we only want the power that comes from the hydro? If the latter, how do they distinguish the hydro power from the dinosaur juice power once it's on the grid? Does it smell better or something?
DrMaddVibe
3 years ago
Twice too!


[frypan] [frypan] [frypan]
Sunoverbeach
3 years ago
Do I have'ta look at it both times?

No, clean 'lectric is not distinguishable from dirty 'lectric once in its shocking final form. Even shares power lines and chit.

I am surprised at any new hydro efforts. EPA doesn't like people messing with the Waters of the US and such

I believe some people in ICEs will run EVs off the road. I believe some people in EVs will run ICEs off the road. I believe every single subcategory of humanity includes some number of azzholes. I HOPE they are a minority overall, but have my doubts some days

This has been your multi-response wrap up. Stardate: 100684.65
Brewha
3 years ago
Then there is the maintenance advantage.

With a gas car you get to take time out and pay for:
Oil changes
Tune ups
Air filter changes
Radiator flush
Transmission service
Stopping at the ga$ stations
Serpentine belt replacements
and so on...


In a battery electric, you got:
Tires
Wiper blades
Wiper fluid
Blinker fluid (BMW only)
frankj1
3 years ago

Help me understand this Frank (I looked at a few articles but they were all fluff pieces or PR releases).

Is NRG building new hydro plant specifically to handle the WS developments or is this hydro-power already on the grid, and WS is simply saying we only want the power that comes from the hydro? If the latter, how do they distinguish the hydro power from the dinosaur juice power once it's on the grid? Does it smell better or something?

Stogie1020 wrote:




all I know is from this:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/01/31/business/why-major-local-developer-is-going-big-renewable-power-its-35-building-portfolio/ 


Why a major local developer is going big on renewable power for 43-building portfolio
WS Development has committed to fully renewable electric power across its New England portfolio, which includes suburban shopping centers and Seaport office buildings.
By Jon Chesto Globe Staff,Updated January 31, 2023, 11:50 a.m.


4
A new Amazon office building is one of eight buildings in the Seaport owned by WS Development, along with dozens more at shopping centers around the region, that are converting to all-renewable electric power under a deal the Chestnut Hill-based developer has signed with local utilities.
A new Amazon office building is one of eight buildings in the Seaport owned by WS Development, along with dozens more at shopping centers around the region, that are converting to all-renewable electric power under a deal the Chestnut Hill-based developer has signed with local utilities.DAVID L. RYAN/GLOBE STAFF
Retail landlord WS Development has signed a power purchase agreement that essentially ensures the electricity for its New England real estate portfolio will come from renewable sources.

The developer announced the seven-year agreement with NRG Energy subsidiary Direct Energy on Tuesday, though it has been rolling into effect property by property over the past month or so. Yanni Tsipis, senior vice president at WS, said his company is buying this power — an estimated 14 million kilowatt-hours of electricity — from hydroelectric dams in northern New England, such as NextEra’s Wyman Hydro plant on the Kennebec River and Brookfield’s Great Lakes Hydro plant on the Penobscot River’s west branch. The deal is the latest example of how the development industry is rethinking its environmental impact amid regulatory pressure from state and municipal officials.

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The WS properties that will run on 100 percent renewable power include three entire buildings and retail space it owns in five other buildings in Boston’s Seaport area and 35 other developments around New England, including Legacy Place in Dedham and The Street in Chestnut Hill where WS is headquartered. Many, Tsipis said, are heated with electricity, allowing those to be considered net-zero in terms of carbon emissions from their energy use. While the agreement doesn’t change the heating source for properties that currently use natural gas, it would significantly reduce their overall carbon footprints.

One structure, a 700,000-square-foot office building to be occupied by Amazon after it opens next year, will be all electric and the largest net-zero office building in Boston.

“This is absolutely on the leading edge,” said Mindy Lubber, president of Ceres, a Boston environmental advocacy organization. “It’s a big contract compared to anything I’ve seen.”

Related
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The next generation of green buildings
Universities and hospitals have purchased large quantities of renewable power for years, but now a growing number of for-profit property owners such as WS are entering the market. Boston Properties signed an agreement in 2018 to buy renewable electricity credits associated with a Texas wind farm for the power used in its Massachusetts buildings, for example, and lab developer Alexandria Real Estate Equities has signed a solar power purchase agreement for its buildings in Greater Boston that takes effect starting in 2024.

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Legacy Place in Dedham is one of the WS Development properties that will be powered fully by electricity from renewable sources.
Legacy Place in Dedham is one of the WS Development properties that will be powered fully by electricity from renewable sources. BILL GREENE
These shifts come as Boston officials push large and midsized buildings to reach “net zero” status by 2050, with increasingly stringent carbon emissions caps starting in 2025. Tsipis cited those rules (known as “BERDO 2.0″) as well as other emissions standards at the municipal and state level — those that have already taken effect, and others that are coming or are under discussion — as a big factor in the decision.

“We’re long-term owners,” Tsipis said. “We care deeply about the communities in which our places are located and also about a greener future for our planet. This was an opportunity to get ahead of what we know the regulatory context is going to be in many of our host communities, especially Boston.”

In WS Development’s case, the power purchase agreement cost was relatively comparable to retail grid rates, Tsipis said. The agreement took about 18 months to hammer out, partly because of the number of hydroelectric plants that needed to be aggregated to meet WS Development’s needs.

The WS portfolio spans 14 million square feet and includes several residential and research buildings in the Seaport that haven’t gone up yet, though it does not include Fenway Corners, a 2-million-square-foot project around Fenway Park that WS is proposing with partners including WS and Fenway Sports Group, which is currently under city review. (FSG’s principal owner John Henry also owns The Boston Globe.)

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Meredith Elbaum, executive director of green-building nonprofit Built Environment Plus, said it’s one thing to reduce the carbon footprint of buildings that are in the planning stage, before a shovel goes in the ground. It’s another thing entirely to do it with existing buildings.

“For them to look across their entire portfolio and not all of the buildings being new buildings, that’s pretty exciting,” Elbaum said of the WS deal. “I do think this is a sign of things to come.”


HockeyDad
3 years ago

one of the largest if not the largest developer/retail landlord in the New England (malls, large office buildings, combo lab/residential/retail etc) just signed a couple hydro-electric deals for renewable power for its new developments.

WS Development.

frankj1 wrote:




Hydro-electric???? Do you know how long hydroelectric power has been around?

On the West coast, dams are being removed because they are bad for the environment.

New England Neanderthals.
HockeyDad
3 years ago

Help me understand this Frank (I looked at a few articles but they were all fluff pieces or PR releases).

Is NRG building new hydro plant specifically to handle the WS developments or is this hydro-power already on the grid, and WS is simply saying we only want the power that comes from the hydro? If the latter, how do they distinguish the hydro power from the dinosaur juice power once it's on the grid? Does it smell better or something?

Stogie1020 wrote:



When you purchase special green energy contracts to lower your greenhouse gas emissions, they actually run special power lines that are colored green to your property. Next time you are looking at power lines you’ll prolly spot them!
frankj1
3 years ago

When you purchase special green energy contracts to lower your greenhouse gas emissions, they actually run special power lines that are colored green to your property. Next time you are looking at power lines you’ll prolly spot them!

HockeyDad wrote:


Huh!
All this time I thought those were Eruv lines...

oh well, more sinning on my permanent record.
Stogie1020
3 years ago
Thanks Frank, appreciate the link. I think that was one of the articles I saw. Seems like the power company is committing to more hydro to source their electricity, and the developer is committing to only using electricity for all physical plant. Not sure that equates to exactly what the press releases say, but I guess they can say whatever they want.
DrMaddVibe
3 years ago

Then there is the maintenance advantage.

With a gas car you get to take time out and pay for:
Oil changes
Tune ups
Air filter changes
Radiator flush
Transmission service
Stopping at the ga$ stations
Serpentine belt replacements
and so on...


In a battery electric, you got:
Tires
Wiper blades
Wiper fluid
Blinker fluid (BMW only)

Brewha wrote:



Wow...that's gotta be great selling points for millennials. Too bad it doesn't come with a soy latte dispenser instead of fart noises. They'd all pile in for those! Another great feature for EVs would've been an EVdollar! You know, to rival the devaluation of the Petrodollar which will in turn crater the US dollar and our purchase power with it. Which our current President did all by himself.

While we're talking about dollars, you love to go on about paying only 20 cents to the dollar. The current energy costs are rising 15.8% nationwide with no end in sight due to the current administration and states like California outlawing ICE's..If you were to buy a $25,000 ICE auto and saved $20K, that $20K would pay for almost 5000 gallons of gas. Even at $4.00 a gallon and if your MPG were over 25 MPG...that's close to 140K miles. You come off like a real trend follower and want to bleed cutting edge but your forgetting Tesla batteries are over 20K to replace. At least that's the cost right now and purchasing new (because who wants a refurb riight?). According to what I can find Tesla is claiming their batteries (sucks to be the other manufacturers!) will last 300,000 to 500,000 miles, or 1,500 battery cycles! That's incredible. Really is, sounds too good to be true. We all know if something is too good to be true..well you know. That's provided you're only driving the car 40 miles a day which in my world...just isn't a possibility and one would really be drinking the kool-aid with 2 straws to go all-in with that perfect scenario! I firmly believe that with those numbers it isn't for most either. Given that I keep my vehicles around for more than 10 years already the math really isn't working out. Why gas would have to climb over $20.00 a gallon in order to make an EV worth it. Never mind the reality that it won't haul 15/20 bales of hay and bags of feed much less pull a 30' 3 horse slant with living quarters trailer! If gasoline goes up that much, the horse is sounding like the viable winner.
Brewha
3 years ago

Wow...that's gotta be great selling points for millennials. Too bad it doesn't come with a soy latte dispenser instead of fart noises. They'd all pile in for those! Another great feature for EVs would've been an EVdollar! You know, to rival the devaluation of the Petrodollar which will in turn crater the US dollar and our purchase power with it. Which our current President did all by himself.

While we're talking about dollars, you love to go on about paying only 20 cents to the dollar. The current energy costs are rising 15.8% nationwide with no end in sight due to the current administration and states like California outlawing ICE's..If you were to buy a $25,000 ICE auto and saved $20K, that $20K would pay for almost 5000 gallons of gas. Even at $4.00 a gallon and if your MPG were over 25 MPG...that's close to 140K miles. You come off like a real trend follower and want to bleed cutting edge but your forgetting Tesla batteries are over 20K to replace. At least that's the cost right now and purchasing new (because who wants a refurb riight?). According to what I can find Tesla is claiming their batteries (sucks to be the other manufacturers!) will last 300,000 to 500,000 miles, or 1,500 battery cycles! That's incredible. Really is, sounds too good to be true. We all know if something is too good to be true..well you know. That's provided you're only driving the car 40 miles a day which in my world...just isn't a possibility and one would really be drinking the kool-aid with 2 straws to go all-in with that perfect scenario! I firmly believe that with those numbers it isn't for most either. Given that I keep my vehicles around for more than 10 years already the math really isn't working out. Why gas would have to climb over $20.00 a gallon in order to make an EV worth it. Never mind the reality that it won't haul 15/20 bales of hay and bags of feed much less pull a 30' 3 horse slant with living quarters trailer! If gasoline goes up that much, the horse is sounding like the viable winner.

DrMaddVibe wrote:


Actually, saying you would rather ride a horse than drive an EV's really suits you. Maybe you could get a bumper sticker.
Nah - the horse wouldn't like that...

So an EV does not meet you needs - fine.
You don't want to own one - kewl.
You don't believe the economy or longevity numbers - groovy.

So what is your ax to grind? Sounds like you don't even have a dog in this fight - so why do you care?
Are you a Social Justice Warrior?
Protecting us from the rampant evils of twenty first century technology.....
DrMaddVibe
3 years ago

Actually, saying you would rather ride a horse than drive an EV's really suits you. Maybe you could get a bumper sticker.
Nah - the horse wouldn't like that...

So an EV does not meet you needs - fine.
You don't want to own one - kewl.
You don't believe the economy or longevity numbers - groovy.

So what is your ax to grind? Sounds like you don't even have a dog in this fight - so why do you care?
Are you a Social Justice Warrior?
Protecting us from the rampant evils of twenty first century technology.....

Brewha wrote:




No "axe" to grind at all. It's a scam being perpetuated upon the American taxpayer. If you cannot see that then you're worse off than I ever imagined. You can be all proud of your new purchase, but just like the jabs you were lock stepped with the Covid mandates. Government forcing anything upon anyone is Tyranny. They don't make good decisions. Look, you don't like it when I post articles and you don't like it when I post from the hip...I'm not following some trendy shiny new thing like you did.

YOU are the SJW. Look at the thread title. Its not called "Brewha's Magical Farting Mobile". You were bought in with Covid and now with EV. I'm not protecting anyone from anything. Just like Covid, common sense should kick in. At least one would like to believe. Not with you though. Masks, jabs, and now buy an electric car. American auto manufacturer's tried like hell to adhere with new CAFE standards but DC kept moving the goalposts at both ends. One could make a case for killing off the Auto manufacturing industry as a whole. Seriously, how much skilled labor is going into Tesla? It's almost all computer aided assembly vs say the Big 3. Once you kill off the "golden goose" you don't get to just walk away and go "Well, we tried though".
Stogie1020
3 years ago
DMV,

It's a scam being perpetuated upon the American taxpayer.



https://www.cigarbid.com/Forum/c/posts/667803/Green-is-Red- 
DrMaddVibe
3 years ago


I became acutely aware of our government picking winners and losers with Solyndra. $535 million in federal loan guarantees and they took the money and ran.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-solyndra-probe-charges/exclusive-criminal-charges-against-solyndra-founder-are-unlikely-sources-idUSBRE96A12H20130711

and


When the government tries to pick winners and losers in the marketplace, like the Obama-Biden administration did in 2009, taxpayers often get to foot the bill.

Critics say that any new infrastructure spending on green energy must have three components:

1. The companies and projects must be vetted and transparent.

2. Funds must be targeted to agreed-upon bipartisan infrastructure objectives unlike in 2009, when Republicans overwhelmingly opposed the legislation.

3. After the funds are spent and the projects built, everything gets an audit.

Otherwise, the only green in the green energy bill will be the taxpayer money down the drain.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2021/04/12/remembering-solyndra--how-many-570m-green-energy-failures-are-hidden-inside-bidens-instructure-proposal/?sh=5ec8a20e2672 
Brewha
3 years ago

No "axe" to grind at all. It's a scam being perpetuated upon the American taxpayer. If you cannot see that then you're worse off than I ever imagined. You can be all proud of your new purchase, but just like the jabs you were lock stepped with the Covid mandates. Government forcing anything upon anyone is Tyranny. They don't make good decisions. Look, you don't like it when I post articles and you don't like it when I post from the hip...I'm not following some trendy shiny new thing like you did.

YOU are the SJW. Look at the thread title. Its not called "Brewha's Magical Farting Mobile". You were bought in with Covid and now with EV. I'm not protecting anyone from anything. Just like Covid, common sense should kick in. At least one would like to believe. Not with you though. Masks, jabs, and now buy an electric car. American auto manufacturer's tried like hell to adhere with new CAFE standards but DC kept moving the goalposts at both ends. One could make a case for killing off the Auto manufacturing industry as a whole. Seriously, how much skilled labor is going into Tesla? It's almost all computer aided assembly vs say the Big 3. Once you kill off the "golden goose" you don't get to just walk away and go "Well, we tried though".

DrMaddVibe wrote:



Like Unleaded gas?
Seat belts, or basically any law, right?

All of the US manufactures are investing heavily to compete in the EV sector. And if they don't, or don't make it - good riddance!
Free market baby, Yah!

You really should respect the market, you know.





What is this "common sense" thing you speak of?
DrMaddVibe
3 years ago

Like Unleaded gas?
Seat belts, or basically any law, right?

All of the US manufactures are investing heavily to compete in the EV sector. And if they don't, or don't make it - good riddance!
Free market baby, Yah!

You really should respect the market, you know.





What is this "common sense" thing you speak of?

Brewha wrote:




Hmmm...I really thought you were intelligent.

You're not. You're a lemming.
Brewha
3 years ago

Hmmm...I really thought you were intelligent.

You're not. You're a lemming.

DrMaddVibe wrote:


Doctor Madd Vibe, you cut me to the quick.

Me in my little Model 3 driving off the cliff of the Green Conspiracy. Along with an ever growing crowd of other EV lemmings. I feel most sorry for the ones in the BMW’s (but that’s a whole nother thread).

Yes - poor us.



I suppose that you cast yourself as a modern day Cassandra.
Things did not go so well for her, you know.
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