rfenst
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a year ago
The Continent has already seen empires fade, but the U.S. remains dynamic.


Opinion: WSJ
There are few places more soothing or beautiful in midsummer than the Baltic coast of the German state of Schleswig-Holstein. The sun sets around 10 p.m. and sea breezes keep temperatures cool while most of the Northern Hemisphere sweats. In Kiel, the region’s largest city and most important harbor, happy crowds stroll the waterfront celebrating the start of Kiel Week, one of the largest sailing events in the world now in its 143rd year.

Yet even there, the shadows of the growing world crisis were evident. Sailboats in the regatta shared the harbor with a large military presence. The 53rd annual North Atlantic Treaty Organization joint fleet exercise in the Baltic was winding down as I arrived. For 21 days, an all-NATO force of more than 50 ships, 85 aircraft and about 9,000 personnel conducted naval operations and landing drills as Russian aircraft buzzed over them.

The American sailors I encountered among the carnival rides, snack bars and restaurants at water’s edge were enthusiastic about their mission. They were unfazed by the possibility that their next assignment might take them from NATO’s northern edge in the Baltic to the confrontation building in the Mediterranean between Israel and Hezbollah.

Even with NATO forces in the harbor, Kiel didn’t have a very martial air. The sailors wandered through the waterfront arcades amid throngs of civilian merry makers. Nobody seemed particularly worried about Russia’s brooding presence at the far end of the Baltic Sea. And Germany, like Europe generally, remains locked in denial about how grim the global situation has become—and how rapidly German and European influence is evaporating around the world.

Decadence and decline aren’t newcomers to the north German coast. The Hanseatic League of commercial city-states was once a major power stretching from the modern Netherlands to Russia. Lübeck, the city on my itinerary after Kiel, rose to its peak in the 14th century, when it was commonly recognized as the league’s “queen.” In 1375 Charles IV named Lübeck one of the “five glories” of his Holy Roman Empire, along with Pisa, Florence, Venice and Rome. After a long decline, the German Empire absorbed Lübeck in 1871, and the last vestiges of its independence ended when the Nazis incorporated the “free city” into the state of Schleswig-Holstein. It remains, however, an important tourist destination, and is renowned for its marzipan.

Unsurprisingly, perhaps, decadence and decline were central preoccupations of Lübeck’s most famous modern son, the Nobel Prize-winning novelist Thomas Mann. “Buddenbrooks,” the work that made his name, was set in a thinly fictionalized Lübeck and describes the social, cultural and economic decline of a typical German bourgeois family during the 19th century. As the primitive strength of the early Buddenbrook generations yielded to the more tortured and conflicted psychologies of a later era, the family became less effective in the real world. Family ties frayed, the business shrank, and the novel closes as a handful of impoverished surviving family members cling to the memories of past greatness.

History doesn’t, I think, teach us that decline has a single cause. The ancient Greeks and Romans believed that decline and decay were part of a natural and inevitable process. As a society becomes affluent and powerful, it loses the primitive virtues that made it great. As virtue vanishes from a people, its institutions decay, and ultimately its defenses collapse.

Success hastened the decline of the Roman Republic into an absolute monarchy. Institutions developed for a struggling city-state on the banks of the Tiber didn’t work for a state that stretched from modern Belgium to Egypt. Excessive success was also a factor in the decline of Qing-dynasty China. Stronger than all its neighbors, China grew complacent. But while China stood pat, European states were driven by endless wars and rivalries to focus on institutional and technological innovations. By the 19th century, China was shocked to discover it was helpless before the power of the once-despised Westerners.

Success isn’t the only cause of decline. Arnold Toynbee argued that civilizations fall when their leaders can no longer command the respect of the masses. The “internal proletariat” of the poor and dispossessed aligns with the “external proletariat” of poor, chaotic outsiders beyond the frontiers, and a once-great civilization comes crashing down. The Hanseatic League and the Ottoman Empire declined in part because voyages of discovery opened new trade routes that sidelined the old Eurasian ones.

Given America’s external and domestic challenges these days, talk of U.S. decline has become fashionable again. After a long look at Europe, I’m not convinced. Lubbock isn’t Lübeck. Our pains are growing pains rather than the aches of old age.

As long as we keep developing new technologies, integrating immigrants and generating wealth on a staggering scale, American society will be too dynamic for decadence and too busy for decline.
DrMaddVibe
a year ago
You forgot the [sarcasm] emoji.
rfenst
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a year ago

You forgot the [sarcasm] emoji.

DrMaddVibe wrote:


No, I just posted the article after reading it and thought it may make for good debate/conversation.
DrMaddVibe
a year ago
Well, I firmly believe this nation is on the decline. We're being invaded by illegal immigrants that are breaking laws just being here, the military industrial complex is thriving and on the verge of war in multiple theaters, inflation is a runaway train, we're no longer energy independent, the dumbing down of America to match nations around the Globe that deserve to be in the predicament they're in, our current leadership is an abysmal declining failure and despots around the World are exploiting it and plotting terror attacks and who can forget the debt mess we're in? No, this is a nation in decline.
rfenst
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a year ago

Well, I firmly believe this nation is on the decline. We're being invaded by illegal immigrants that are breaking laws just being here, the military industrial complex is thriving and on the verge of war in multiple theaters, inflation is a runaway train, we're no longer energy independent, the dumbing down of America to match nations around the Globe that deserve to be in the predicament they're in, our current leadership is an abysmal declining failure and despots around the World are exploiting it and plotting terror attacks and who can forget the debt mess we're in? No, this is a nation in decline.

DrMaddVibe wrote:


I concur. We appear to have reached our peak and are on a graph that has a jagged, slow decline. I'll be fine. So will my kids. Their kids? I don't know.
RayR
a year ago
Under Argentina’s anarcho-capitalist Javier Milei although faced with plenty of obstacles from Lefty Peronists, his scary chainsaw-wielding austerity measures have reduced food inflation to 0%.
America will continue to decline until the swamp breaks out of its cycle of arrogance and self-destruction.

Argentina Marks First Week Without Food Inflation in 30 Years, After New President Takes Office Six Months Ago

By mannaxpress
June 26, 2024

Argentina, a country historically plagued by high inflation, has just experienced a landmark week. For the first time in three decades, there were no price increases in food and beverages, according to the private consulting firm Econométrica. This occurred six months after President Javier Milei took office in December 2023. The libertarian leader has prioritized the battle against inflation, inheriting an economy with an annual inflation rate of 142%, declining economic activity, and record debt levels.

This remarkable event occurred in the third week of June 2024, breaking a 30-year trend of continuous price hikes in these categories.

Ramiro Castiñeira, the director of Econométrica, shared graphs on social media illustrating the declining trend of food inflation over recent months, culminating in a 0% increase.

An analysis of 8,000 online supermarket prices revealed a projected monthly increase of 3% for food prices. However, overall inflation, which includes non-food items, is expected to be higher in June compared to May, primarily due to rising tariffs, according to a study reported by Infobae.

This recent development is a significant achievement in Milei’s ongoing efforts to stabilize Argentina’s economy.

https://mannaxpress.com/argentina-marks-first-week-without-food-inflation-in-30-years-after-new-president-takes-office-six-months-ago/ 

MACS
a year ago
We have most certainly jumped the shark. The question isn't "are we in decline" we most certainly have been for years. The question is, can we right the ship... or is she already sunk and we're all treading water right now?
rfenst
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a year ago

We have most certainly jumped the shark. The question isn't "are we in decline" we most certainly have been for years. The question is, can we right the ship... or is she already sunk and we're all treading water right now?

MACS wrote:


IMO, the ship is already shifting slowly while taking on some water Much more to come..
Speyside2
a year ago
Hey man, get in the lifeboat. The Titanic was the biggest grandest ocean liner ever. It sank fast. At one time we had the biggest economy. At one time people around the world wanted to come to America for a better/grandest life. I'll save you a seat Robert.
DrMaddVibe
a year ago
And I see lonely ships upon the water
Better save the women and children first
Sail away with someone's daughter
Better save the women and children first 👻
MACS
a year ago
Europe does NOT have mail in voting (and they have to show ID)... and they seem to be righting the ship at the ballot boxes.

Much like Argentina.
rfenst
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a year ago

Europe does NOT have mail in voting (and they have to show ID)... and they seem to be righting the ship at the ballot boxes....

MACS wrote:


Just because Trump said so doesn't make it true.
Google is your friend.
MACS
a year ago

Just because Trump said so doesn't make it true.
Google is your friend.

rfenst wrote:



Google is not my friend, it is a cog in the media machine. And I had no idea Trump said that. I don't hang on the dude's every word.
rfenst
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a year ago
If we were to do anything new ho making voting easier, we would have a standard number of pre-election days to vote early and election day being made a national holiday so that no one's work interferes with voting.
rfenst
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a year ago

Google is not my friend, it is a cog in the media machine. And I had no idea Trump said that. I don't hang on the dude's every word.

MACS wrote:


So, use a different browser- even your favorite one!
MACS
a year ago

So, use a different browser- even your favorite one!

rfenst wrote:



I suggest you follow your own advice.
jeebling
a year ago

If we were to do anything new ho making voting easier, we would have a standard number of pre-election days to vote early and election day being made a national holiday so that no one's work interferes with voting.

rfenst wrote:



I agree with a national holiday for the general election. I agree with a standard number of early voting days but I think I would be a PITA on the details. I think voters need to be registered and that they need to show government issued photo ID to vote. Absentee voting should be tightened up, not loosened. Mail in voting should be really tightened up IMHO.
jeebling
a year ago
What makes America great or the “best” country to live in? Is it the relative wealth of the middle class? It sure as heck isn’t democracy. I believe it is what we have referred to as American values. I’m speaking to the American Dream that has been damaged by entitlement programs and socialized medicine and education. I’m talking about the nuclear family and stay at home moms who manage the household and are treated with respect for their sacrifices and families with a father who has a job and assumes the role of bread winner and protector. There is room for families with same-sex parents, I’m not shutting them out. We can teach the Theory of Evolution w/o including programs in school that puts pornography in the hands of children or indoctrinates children into the trans movement. We can Pledge Allegiance to the Flag w/o indoctrination as well. We can allow students to observe their religion without having teachers leading prayer in any favored religious dogma. Leave the teachers out of it other than to allow them to practice their own beliefs separately and privately. Pushing ideology that is racist and / or anti-American has no place in publicly funded schools at any level.
rfenst
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a year ago
^

I agree pretty much agree, but your explanation of family roles (housewife/non-working mother and breadwinner husband) is outdated and no longer realistic.
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