"It ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance by solemn Acts of Devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with Pomp and Parade, with Shews, Games, Sports, guns, Bells, Bonfires and Illuminations from one End of this Continent to the other from this Time forward forever more. You will think me transported with Enthusiasm but I am not. I am well aware of the Toil and Blood and Treasure, that it will cost Us to maintain this Declaration, and support and defend these States. Yet through all the Gloom I can see the Rays of ravishing Light and Glory. I can see that the End is more than worth all the Means. And that Posterity will tryumph in that Days Transaction, even altho We should rue it, which I trust in God We shall not."

-John Adams in a letter to his wife a day before what was to become the first Independence Day


"Independence Forever"

-last public words of Thomas Jefferson as a toast for the celebration of the fiftieth anniversary of the Declaration of Independence


HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!!!!

Send this to Rickmaven, he STILL doesn't think we should be there!

Amen!!!

Thanks You

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Why isn't the US in Sudan, North Korea, and many other countries that are probably in worse situations than Iraq? Don't get me wrong, liberating the people of Iraq from Saddam is great, but did we have international right to do it?
Hypothetically, does China have the right to overthrow any smaller country, just because China feels that that country would be better off with a new government?
The US went in claiming Weapons of Mass Destruction, and I am hoping we find some, but was that on false hopes or leads. Claiming liberation, IMHO, is not justified without heavy international support, and we all know there was strong opposition to the invasion.
People on these boards will call me a damn liberal, or a Saddam lover, or whatever you want, but I stand by my opinion that the initial reasons for war was unjustified until proven wrong, which I really hope I am proven wrong.
I love our nation, I will support our president, but I will criticise him as well, because that is what this nation is all about.

choner

While junior is begging candy, Dad is aiming his RPG at another HummV.

"The US went in claiming Weapons of Mass Destruction, and I am hoping we find some"... Hey choner, did you see the pictures of the Kurd villages gassed by Sadam? You figure he used up all of his WMD and didn't make more? There's no question he had them, and no question that he used them. So if he destroyed them, why not show the UN the records/proof? Why insist on stalling until we invaded? Are you really that convinced he was disarmed?

The gassing of Kurds is a very controversial issue. There has been no clear story of what happened during this event. The following article from the Toronto Star news and if you do a search on the internet, you will find that it is unclear on what happened during that time.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0301-06.htm 

Chemical weapons are possessed by several counries. It is easy to make therefore even terrorist groups inside the US and other countries possess them. Remember the Sarin attacks in the Japanese subway. So Saddam supposedly had Chemicals weapons which several countries and groups have. But this is a minor point for the US claimed that Iraq had bigger weapons such as biological and nuclear.
The US claim of nuclear weapons has been hard, because two of the key eveidence happened to be false: (1) the forged documents purporting to show that Iraq was trying to obtain uranium from Niger, and (2) the high strength aluminum rods sought by Iraq that the US insisted were to be used in a nuclear application. That contention was roundly debunked not only by IAEA scientists but also by the international engineering community.
We cannot attack a coutry because of assumptions. We need clear evidence, which has not been provided. If you read Hans Blix reports, you would see that he was making progress to trying to find them. But I guess the US decided to attack and hope to find them later. I say I hope we find them because it would be very embarrissing for our country if no weapons are found. I am not really that confident that Saddam disarmed, but I am not confident that he had all the weapons capabilites to support an invasion either. Thats just my opinion. It's a tough subject, and I see both sides of the coin, but its good to discuss it on these forums with everyone.

choner

... what if ...

- just "what if" there is a LOT more to this whole story other than WMD?

... maybe there's a LOT more information that "Joe Public" doesn't need to know, or if was released, would further threaten both America and the Middle East.

... maybe the public isn't ready to hear the truth about all of the details of what "Dubya" and our other elected leaders already know?

... maybe if we'd finished it all back in '91 - we wouldn't have lost all the men & women this time around in the Gulf?

... maybe 911 wouldn't have happened had we'd not been so nice 12 years ago?

Why are we the only country that has to justify our every action?

Sorry Jimmy I don't play the "what if" game because its useless trying to second guess events because you and I will never know the answer.

And the White House just made statements that its claim of Iraq trying to acqiure uranium rods from Africa were false. Also, Joe Public should be ready to hear any shocking info the White House has since its been a few months now since Saddam has been ousted.

choner

Choner,
That info about the rods was given to us, by guess who? The French! The wanted us to look bad, but there's more WMD than some spent rods. We know he had it, now we have to persuade the remaining Iraq citizens to show us where it's at! To believe that Bush invaded Iraq with no proof discredits the Clinton administration and the UN as well! Give it a little time, he's had 12 freakin' years to bury the stuff, we'll find it.

Yeah, justification, the only thing you don't see is that they are orphans now. Their parents accidently entered within 40 meters of a road block and the car they were driving was ripped apart buy 50cal bullets.

I do not mean this in a snide or rude way, but the comment above is simply moronic and unfounded. Which I submit is the quintisential problem with leftists. All talk, no walk. You have no clue what is really going on in these children's lives but you drum up a story of their "suffering" to play on the emotions of good people. Forget the facts, in fact don't even ask, just report what you think will make people cry regardless of it's foundation in anything even close o the truth. Now, an honest question. Why? MK

We showed GREAT restraint. After 9-11 I 'm totally for the use of tactical and non-tactical nuclear weapons to dispose of enemies that do us and their own people great harm.

There are no shades of grey with an issue like this. Either you support what is going on or you don't. One doesn't have to fabricate fairy tales to sway public opinion.

prajna, would you have been happier if they would not have fired (the troops) and then been a victim of a car bomb? or a drive by? Two questions, do you hate the US? And, were you born here? I’m thinking the answers are “yes, and no”…

****, Robby's bleeding red, white, and blue today!

my Wife asked me last night to refrain from Posting to prajna Post last night... and I am doing my Best to refrain from posting to it again tonight.... She said **** who make statements like that are just looking for someone to come back and slam them... so I am doing real well maintaining from responding to such an Assanine comment....


Did I do good or what??? bet my Doctor would be proud!!! LoL

Hog

prajna is a moron not a liberal or a conservative

Did you guys hear there might be an oversight committee to see if the administration fabricated evidence to make the war case for Iraq? Maybe now we'll get some honest answers...

I think the Picture above that Lordog posted... is Justification and Proof enough... If most of you haven't caught the specials running on History Channel about Saddam and his son's and Iraq the way these people have had to live... I suggest you catch them...

there will be WMD found and I am sure there already has been plenty... just not publically published... see there are grave risks to publish allot of things that someone doesn't want to get out!!!

But the Issue here is Life and Freedom of that... and even our Forfathers knew that many lives would be lost to preserve just that... no matter what the color of the Skin or the Origin of which the person was born... that All men/Race should be free!!!! that is the American Way and adopted by many many other country's throughout the Years and Generations...

but it is We the United States who have to be portrayed as the Bad Ass's... So Be It!!!

Hog

Sorry Meant Lardog!!

Hog