usahog-

I think maybe we missed each other. All I was trying to say is, God owes us nothing, (why does bad things happen to good people) we are all sinners, "there is no good, no not one", and the penalty for sin is death, separation from God for eternity. However my sins are forgiving by the finished and accomplished work of Jesus Christ and his death on Calvary. Thanks all I was getting at.

Ksig, I'm sorry I did miss read your post before...

I missed the "I look at it this way" Part in your post...Again I appologize for that... I'm a little jumpy these days and need to slow down a bit myself...

you are correct in what you were posting although I do not View Death as being cast away from God...

and for myself I hope I am standing right with God today may that day beit....for he himself alone holds that Key to Eternal Life with Him or Damnation!!!!

Again Sorry for this missread...

Hog

There was a lot of smiting in the OT. Go kill those people and take their land. That's what I was referring to when I said there's lots of violence in the good book. Not saying it's not a good book. It is, and I believe, but there be violence in there.

Agnostic I can see how, but Athesism...isn't that like saying I choose not to believe in God? So if(and that's the BIGGEST IF to me in the universe!)there is no God, then why do you believe this to be valid practice?

I'm not singling you out Chris, its just I'd like to know. I've never "known" an Athesist.

I'm an atheist. I just don't believe there is a god or gods. Its not that hard to comprehend. I can understand why some belive in a god, and its the same to not believe in one too.

choner

It's not that I choose not to believe in God, it's that I think there is no God. It's not a practice, there's no meetings or collection plate. By definition it's the absence of faith and theistic belief.

But in choosing not believe aren't you saying that there is a God?

no, like I said, I'm not choosing to not believe, I think there is no God, just like I think there is no santa claus or easter bunny.

Oh, now you've done it! You're telling me that you don't believe in Santa!

Chris...did you drink the "kool-aid"?

I will not fall victim to faulty logic, now spiked Kool-aid is another story...

Whaddaya mean no Santa Claus? Whose been eating the milk and cookies I leave out on Christmas Eve? I live alone.

See! See THAT! There is a Santa!

"You'll put your eye out with that thing!" - Santa Claus

I, too, am a free-thinking atheist. Started out as a Catholic, migrated to Lutheranism, then started reading on my own.

"So if(and that's the BIGGEST IF to me in the universe!)there is no God, then why do you believe this to be valid practice?"

Uh... because there's not a single shred of evidence to support the idea that there IS a god? That sounds more like reasoning to me.

Face it: if you propose that God exists, it's on you to prove it, for the simple fact that it's impossible to prove something doesn't exist.

"You not entitled to care and love, no one is because we all are sinners, and the only thing we are entitled to is death"

Good grief! Take a pill, buddy--life's not that bad!

This is getting redundant.

Some believe.

Some don't.

I think it's easy to understand.

It's called "Faith" because there is no absolute Proof.

I Have enough "Faith" that I even Say a Prayer for my other BOTL weather or no you Believe in a God!!!!

Hog

tg - I agree!

Quote:

If there was anything that would make me believe in a god it would be facts showing care and love and would NOT include fire and brimstone.

_____________________________________________________

Here’s my two cents…

A lot of people use that argument, “Well there’s so much pain and suffering in the world, that there must not be a God.”

I believe that God is a God of pure love… beyond what our egotistical minds can even begin to comprehend. If you truly love something, you’ll give it complete freedom… freedom to believe and freedom to deny. Freedom to do good, and freedom to do evil. We have the freedom to follow God, or Evil…. or do nothing at all. But sometimes a spectator is even worse than the perpetrator.

Also, the thought that God will turn people away from Heaven bothers me. God is pure love, and therefore will forgive any who wants His grace. However at the time of death, when the soul begins its journey, there are powerful entities that wish to pull you away from that path… imagine things like attack dogs clawing, scratching and biting at you. So if your connection is not strong, you can get pulled away from that path and dragged down to Hell… similar to the scene in the movie Ghost.

That’s my two cents…

I strongly believe in God. I also believe that god has given us a life to live that we control, and the destiny of our lives is determined by our own actions.

I dont think that God decided that Bill Gates would be the richest man in the world. Just as I dont believe God chose for a homeless person to live with nothing and hardship.

Thats why there is a heaven and hell. Why would God let a human be created that has a predetermined destiny to go to hell?

Our own decisions in life determine the outcome. Just my opinion.

Mag

I had a friend who told me that we didn't control our destinies. She put it this way, God gives you the ability to decide. You walk down your road of life, and come to a fork. Each fork will take you down a predetermined destiny in your life. You choose the fork in the road, but the destination has already been decided before you chose it.

Plus, ask any combat veteran, there are no atheists in foxholes.

Cigarick-

I obviously can not argue with you. I you do not believe in the infallible work of God, called the bible then all I can do for you (like hog said) is pray for you. However in case you want to look Roman 3:23, Romans 6:23 will give you the verse I quoted. As far as being able to prove God, man just look around, look at your wife and kids (if you have any) the glory of god is everywhere. Romans 1:20.

I digress