If waterboarding 1000 suspected terrorists yielded one nugget of information that led to preventing a terrorist plot that saved even 1 American life then not only am I for it but I will sign up to refill the buckets.

Thats where we differ Rick. In my opinion anyone who would commit mass murder to further their political or religious agenda is the lowest form of scum and therefore does not deserve the rights afforded a normal human being.

This is not a war against another country, it is a Pursuit of Mass murdering Thugs. The tennants of war do not apply heer..

Whatever techniques you wish to use to get info, do it off the books and quietly. Don't sanction it officially or leave a trail. Do what you need to do and disappear people when you can get away with it. Cloak and dagger. The Brits have been great at it forever and we haven't been half bad.

WWRD? What would Ronnie do? He'd let the rumors about the awful things that are happening behind the scenes run there cource and say "there you go again....). Plausable denyability.

An open discussion about something that could be reasonably called torture by some is silly. Be smart. Leave no evidence. Rendition. Fight the war nasty just don't talk about it or leave evidence. Stupid.

How's Lynndie England liking retirement?

If the torture is a form of punishment, then I agree whole heartedly.
But if the torture is a means to an end, i.e. to gain information that will save lives, then I am all for it.

Rick,
If your family were in grave danger and the only person who could provide infomration to save them wouldn't talk, wouldn't you want to use any and all means necessary to get that info?

I know it's a hypothetical question that is unlikely to ever manifest itself in real life on a personal level, but when we're talking about wars and American lives it is very real indeed.
These terrorists don't abide by "rules". They use human shields in the form of hospitals and schools and even places of worship.
They don't target military objectives, but rather attack civilians to achieve their objectives.

THEY are the lowest form of scum.
To think otherwise is pure pacifist idealism.

Rick: Our forces, in conjunction with foreign militaries, continue to capture and interrogate Al Quida terrorists. Obama has already turned some of those captured over to foreign governments (allies) and some to Iraqi and Afghan forces. Obama knows what's going to happen to them. He know they will be tortured, waterboarded, and (most likely) killed in an attempt to gleen information. I really hate popping your bubble, but Obama is washing his hands and letting the foreign governments do much of his dirty work so he can claim to be the "saint" in all of this. In my opinion, this is a chickensh*t way out of it. What's worse, he's only fooling a handfull of ignorant and brainwashed Americans. The blood of those tortured is still on his hands.

Like I said earlier - you and I don't have to like it or support it. Still, it is happening and to think it isn't is naive.

Anyone who resorts to terrorism...the deliberate murder or maiming of innocent men, women, and children in pursuit of their distorted world pseudo-religious political view... deserves no more consideration or compassion than do the rats who scurry around dank basements gnawing holes in flour sacks.

And like filthy rats, terrorists should be exterminated before they can spread the plague they carry by any means that is effective.

I assume this does not apply to Israel.

Some chicks like being tied up and spanked...

We are (were) not torturing "anyone", only those with reasonable expectation of gaining information that could save lives.
We were not doing so because we had the power to do it, we were doing it because the alternative was relatively unthinkable.

Yes, it is a very distasteful moral slippery slope, that should be avioded if possible.
But at the cost of innocents?

What would you say to the parents of children killed by terrorists we could have stopped, becuase we had one who we KNEW had info, but just let sit in a cell?

We go to the greatest lengths and expense to ensure not one innocent American accused of a crime faces incoorect punishment (in America),
But we'll sacrifice innocents for the sake of the "rights" of foreign spys? That is what terrorists are - complete disregard not only for the standards of warfare, but of civilization in general. Take a look and see how history has regarded spies and their "rights".

We remain, by far, the most forward, justice loving nation in our treatment of those who wage war against us.
EVER

Sometimes I wish we could live in a black and white world where it would be easy and honest to say either "that is evil" or "that is good".
But we don't.

It's this "touchy-feely" second guessing that allowed a CIA operative to slip under the wire and go rogue. Once he went rogue we had ample chances to take him out. The Administration at that time instituted policies that went all the way to the highest and if the order wasn't given or there wasn't a reply back they simply watched the target disappear from view.

Ever wonder why a President ages before our eyes? They grey up, get bags under the eyes and look or appear tired at times. They're feeling the weight of the Office. The decisions they make must be for the good of the many and not the few.

Just once...yes, just once I would like to see all of those opposed to any means of extracting information (call it torture if you must!) be on the other side. I'd love for some dirtbag to know the location of a bomb in their house or car and the time it's going to go off and see them in action. See the look of the person that wants to willingly give his life to kill that person's family and neighbors. What call would they make then? We won't be given that opportunity though. Instead we have to hear about the evils of torture especially from the islamo-fascists that are creating cells worldwide with only one goal on their minds.

http://www.angelfire.com/goth/raydeny2k/Mov/DanielPearl.ram 

You can't go back and rectify a command decision. They've made theirs. Yours is a reactionary move.

Watch the movie in the link I posted. Any questions about where their "loyalties" lie?

Still want to second guess? Write Mr's Pearl a letter and tell her about how you feel. Tell that family about how it's so wrong and uncompassionate. Reason it with someone that would've gladly tortured a person to rescue her husband.

Cry in your beer. Freedom is paid with blood. I'd rather it be the blood of some other sonofabitch than one that has breathed the fresh air of Freedom.

It's not torture. It's "enhanced interrogation." Torture is illegal. Get it right people.

Sometimes your posts torture me. And I think you do it just because you can. And I think you enjoy it.

SCUM!

\:d/

Why torture them when you can have more fun

SPLITTING THEM IN 2 !

She's sitting on a potential gold mine. There's probably thousands of guys in Frisco who'd pay good money to get treated like that.

People with dirty coffee pots are the lowest form of scum and should be waterboarded!

Some of your thinking (for lack of a better word) is pretty torturous. Maybe you should find a nice warm place in the gutter where you can hang out with the other scum?

Maybe you can get a place in the same neighborhood as Stalin, Hitler, and Harvey Milk?

I've had the extreme displeasure of watching terrorists kill American and British prisoners. The terrorists love to film it so they can show their power. Their choice of the weapon-of-death is usually simple - a dull butcher knife. Of course, taking a human head off with a dull butcher knife takes quite a bit longer than a sharp knife. The terrorists cut and saw and pull and cut and manipulate the knife for upwards of a minute trying to remove the head. All the while, the American or British prisoner is screaming and gurgling and gasping for breath as their windpipe and arteries are cut. It's a horrific sight to see and hear and I'll never forget it as long as I live. What's worse, it's a horrible way to die and how any human can do that to another human is beyond me. I could kill in battle when it's my life or theirs. But, to cut the head off your enemy when they are alive and screaming and filming to show their friends shows no respect for human lives.

At least our torture is nothing more than the fear of drowning. The terrorist gets to recover in a matter of seconds and live their life unlike the U.S. and British citizens whose heads was removed.

Go ahead, torture away if it saves lives - I'll support the decision when necessary.

Chief, I couldn't agree more with you. And I'm terribly sorry you had to experience those things as I'm certain they never fully go away.
RICK, I really wish you'd pack your **** and head off to a country that you can take pride in, because this is clearly not it!!!!
You sicken me................