Poll Question: How to Solve the National Debt Problem
Brewha
15 years ago


Giving 4 out of 10 dollars is not already enough?](*,) 🐴 😣 🙏

OldSchool wrote:



I take it you believe that the wealthy already pay their far share.
Boy, have they got you FOOLED! 🤣
fishinguitarman
15 years ago
Our resident Michael Moore/James Carville x3 will be along shortly to explain everthing to us...
HockeyDad
15 years ago

I take it you believe that the wealthy already pay their fair share.
Boy, have they got you FOOLED! 🤣

Brewha wrote:




Define "fair share".
OldSchool
15 years ago

I take it you believe that the wealthy already pay their far share.
Boy, have they got you FOOLED! 🤣

Brewha wrote:




1. Class warfare is unAmerican
2. I don't begrudge the rich for what they have.
3. Poor people do not hire other people
4. What's that statistic.... The top 2% pay 90% of the taxes... THAT IS NOT ENOUGH??

And oh yeah, 48% of people in this country pay NO TAXES. How about they pony up a "fair share".
DrafterX
15 years ago

Define "fair share".

HockeyDad wrote:





a fair share should be enough to support one anchor baby and it's family..... the really rich guys have to support the crack anchor babies tho.. they cost a little bit more to take care of and stuff.... 😟
Brewha
15 years ago

1. Class warfare is unAmerican
2. I don't begrudge the rich for what they have.
3. Poor people do not hire other people
4. What's that statistic.... The top 2% pay 90% of the taxes... THAT IS NOT ENOUGH??

And oh yeah, 48% of people in this country pay NO TAXES. How about they pony up a "fair share".

OldSchool wrote:



And that is just a little of the mind numbing “facts” that mean the wealth will never pay their fare share. You have parroted what you have been told well. Thanks for the help.


Class warfare is un-American????
Wow, you really don’t get it, do you . . . .
OldSchool
15 years ago
Ok enough of "facts".

Just come out and say it, how much of MY money is "fair-share" enough to give to someone else?
fishinguitarman
15 years ago
SAVE THE STARFISH!
tailgater
15 years ago

And that is just a little of the mind numbing “facts” that mean the wealth will never pay their fare share. You have parroted what you have been told well. Thanks for the help.


Class warfare is un-American????
Wow, you really don’t get it, do you . . . .

Brewha wrote:



Brewha,
I applaud you for asking the questions and making us think.

But sometimes you also have to be more specific.

How much (by percentage) should the wealthy pay for it to be considered their "fair share"?

I don't need catch phrases or general terms with zero substance (we often hear "Oh, that's just a write-off", or that the rich pay almost no taxes because of the "loop holes").
This is gibberish without specifics, and most people that cite them have no clue what they're even saying even if it is the truth.

But you seem to know where you're going with this.
So I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious.

How much IS enough?
elk hunter
15 years ago
How about limiting Government spending, and instead of a punishment for working(income tax) have a flat tax across the board on what you spend... Admittedly, the flat tax would be a tough one to figure out but, it could be done...

dubleuhb
15 years ago
+1 on a flat tax, eliminate the IRS.
rfenst
15 years ago

Figure out a way to convert the angst and negativity in here into a posative form of energy. It shouldn't be hard since it is wrapped in the polar opposite form of patriotism.

teedubbya wrote:




LMAO!!!
rfenst
15 years ago

I take it you believe that the wealthy already pay their far share.
Boy, have they got you FOOLED! 🤣

Brewha wrote:




The problem is in defining "fair".
wheelrite
15 years ago
A Fed Tax on Prostitution,,,

whores should pay...

and an Abortion Tax
Brewha
15 years ago

Brewha,
I applaud you for asking the questions and making us think.

But sometimes you also have to be more specific.

How much (by percentage) should the wealthy pay for it to be considered their "fair share"?

I don't need catch phrases or general terms with zero substance (we often hear "Oh, that's just a write-off", or that the rich pay almost no taxes because of the "loop holes").
This is gibberish without specifics, and most people that cite them have no clue what they're even saying even if it is the truth.

But you seem to know where you're going with this.
So I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious.

How much IS enough?

tailgater wrote:



In all fairness – “fair” is a bit of a weasel word. I suppose will spend the rest of our lives (as a nation) debating what a “fair share of tax” is. Seems a lot of folks here believe that the wealth already pay a fair share (keep watching Fox).

I doubt anyone here is ‘wealthy’. Oh, you might be deep into six figures, have a second home, take may trips and even drive two cars. Well off perhaps. Maybe your wife and girlfriend both have b00b-jobs. Hell, some of you might even be ‘rich’. But no one here sits on the Fed or is a captain of industry. Real wealth isn’t about your reported income – Ya’ll are thinking taxes – I’m talking big picture. We are middle class, as in we work for wages. The wealthy don’t have wages as such.

Interesting that no one debates the cost of war or the businesses get tax breaks and subsidies. But everyone cracking down over $60k a year thinks their wealthy, and is afraid that their taxes will go up. And no – I don’t have a new tax code to propose. That would not stop the dept. It would just keep us arguing about how many M&M’s we get to keep while the revenue gets pissed away on another war and business ‘incentives’ for someone’s ‘special friend’. And that is not ‘fare’.
tailgater
15 years ago

In all fairness – “fare” is a bit of a weasel word. I suppose will spend the rest of our lives (as a nation) debating what a “fare share of tax” is. Seems a lot of folks here believe that the wealth already pay a fair share (keep watching Fox).

I doubt anyone here is ‘wealthy’. Oh, you might be deep into six figures, have a second home, take may trips and even drive two cars. Well off perhaps. Maybe your wife and girlfriend both have b00b-jobs. Hell, some of you might even be ‘rich’. But no one here sits on the Fed or is a captain of industry. Real wealth isn’t about your reported income – Ya’ll are thinking taxes – I’m talking big picture. We are middle class, as in we work for wages. The wealthy don’t have wages as such.

Interesting that no one debates the cost of war or the businesses get tax breaks and subsidies. But everyone cracking down over $60k a year thinks their wealthy, and is afraid that their taxes will go up. And no – I don’t have a new tax code to propose. That would not stop the dept. It would just keep us arguing about how many M&M’s we get to keep while the revenue gets pissed away on another war and business ‘incentives’ for someone’s ‘special friend’. And that is not ‘fare’.

Brewha wrote:




So you don't want to answer?

In my opinion, if you are "deep into six figures, have a second home, etc" then you are wealthy.
Just because we as a nation have already redefined what "poor" is (we're the only country in the world where the so-called poor have an issue with being overweight, carry a cell phone on every person over 10 years old, and complain that their 2nd television set isn't high def), but I'm not ready to redefine "Middle Class" to those who earn that much money and own more than one home.

So maybe you want to separate Upper Class from the truly wealthy?
OK. That's fine.
But then you still have to answer the question of what is "fair", since you're the one who proclaimed they don't pay enough and only the Fox lemmings could possibly think such an absurdity.

So belly up to the bar.
YOU stated that the wealthy don't pay their fair share.
YOU claim that only fox news diciples could believe otherwise.
So now YOU should stop being so vague and stop trying to deflect the issue by discussion other unrelated (albeit quite important) topics such as the cost of war.




teedubbya
15 years ago
8% accross the board. no deductions no exemptions.
tweoijfoi
15 years ago

8% accross the board. no deductions no exemptions.

teedubbya wrote:



This is a terrible idea. The super-richer are getting super-richer and everyone else is getting poorer.

Also... 8% across the board would not equal how much we current take in with taxes.
HockeyDad
15 years ago
I don't mind the idea of balancing the budget by goring one class of people or even corporations. If the decision is made that all government spending is necessary, we are going to have to gore someone and we should get on with it.

We are 1.4 trillion in the hole for this year alone. President Obama's budget recommendations have us one trillion in the hole for the next 10 years. Based on this "keep spending & raise revenue" model, we have some ox goring to do.

Although the rich or wealthy (a complicated definition distinction) own the politicians, they are still the easiest to gore based on pitchfork and torch numerical superiority. Let's go after the top 2% which are those with income over $250K per year.

With this target, that gives us 1.7 million households to hit. Let's say we need to raise one trillion dollars a year from them.

We need to raise an average of an additional 588K USD per year from every household that makes more than $250K per year. Clearly it would need to be progressive taxed and a flat tax won't work.

We could broaden the target to the top 6% of households and that would be those over $150K per year. That would lessen the burden a bit.

Regardless of whether we gore the top 2% or the top 6% or even some other larger group is that to transfer that one trillion dollars to the Federal government, all that money now comes out of the economy. Keep in mind that the entire US economy is around $15 trillion (including government deficit spending) so when we extract the one trillion in economic activity to eliminate the deficit spending, that still subtracts one trillion from the economy. That means 6.6% of the economy vanishes.

Now I grant you that the top 2% or top 6% will be able to keep on living just fine after being gored and they aren't all going to pack off in masse to the Caymans or some other low tax location but one trillion dollars still just vanished from the economy. I don't know what they spent that money on.....cars, boats, vacation homes, tax-free muni bonds, CDs in banks that made SBA loans, new business ventures, etc. What I do know is that when 6.6% of the economy vanishes, there absolutely will be a trickle down affect.

I don't know what sectors will get hit the hardest. It will not be the case where all businesses simply contract by 6.6%. and lay off 6.6% of their employees. Some that are under the Obama Cone of Protection will be unaffected. Other sectors will be destroyed.

Democrats know they can't eliminate 6.6% of the economy to balance the books and preserve government size and spending. That is why they still want to borrow a trillion a year.

Republicans know they can't freeze the debt ceiling and cut one trillion in government spending without slashing every program including the military. Even if we eliminated one trillion per year in Federal spending, that still eliminates 6.6% of the economy.

My only point is when we seek to gore one segment of the population, inevitably we are going to gore a lot more than we expected. It is the Law of Unexpected Consequences.


Everybody is going to get gored one way or another. Get ready for the pain.
Brewha
15 years ago

So you don't want to answer?

In my opinion, if you are "deep into six figures, have a second home, etc" then you are wealthy.
Just because we as a nation have already redefined what "poor" is (we're the only country in the world where the so-called poor have an issue with being overweight, carry a cell phone on every person over 10 years old, and complain that their 2nd television set isn't high def), but I'm not ready to redefine "Middle Class" to those who earn that much money and own more than one home.

So maybe you want to separate Upper Class from the truly wealthy?
OK. That's fine.
But then you still have to answer the question of what is "fair", since you're the one who proclaimed they don't pay enough and only the Fox lemmings could possibly think such an absurdity.

So belly up to the bar.
YOU stated that the wealthy don't pay their fair share.
YOU claim that only fox news diciples could believe otherwise.
So now YOU should stop being so vague and stop trying to deflect the issue by discussion other unrelated (albeit quite important) topics such as the cost of war.

tailgater wrote:



I don’t want to answer? I need to explain ‘fare’ to you? Deflecting the issue?

Dude, I am pointing to fundamental inequities in our system. You are just looking for a point of tax code to debate – sorry I don’t have one. Besides – new tax code would not fix the debt.

You think you are wealthy? Good for you. I assume then that most everyone in the US is wealthy and you interpret ‘wealthy not paying their fare share’ to mean ‘no one is paying enough’. Not what I wrote, Not what I meant.

You rich guys are all alike - 😄

What would you call someone who owns billions in net worth? Someone who never drew wage and selects what passes for news? Guess wealthy ain’t the right word.
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