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HockeyDad
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#21

I must be missing the giant news stories about Israel snagging Israeli citizens off the street because they meet "profiles" and the funding we expressly provide to do so. Robert is correct, so I will not enter a prolonged fruitless debate on such a claim about a foreign country.

But staying on topic, as a member of a people that has managed to survive similar repeated govenmentally encouraged actions. I object to it happening here for the simple reason that it is a very bad precedent. Who knows what group may be in power here in the future and who their idea of what constitutes a threat may comprise. If Muslims ever make up 60% of our government I would be against them pulling you in without any more reason than your skin and your version of the bible. I assume your support of me and mine in the same scenario.

frankj1 wrote:

It doesn't make giant news stories but it is covered and administrative detention orders and the emergency powers law.

We actually have some of the same authority here through the Patriot Act although not nearly as expansive in the duration of detention. We also have a bunch of neat FEMA detention camps already built and maintained. Eventually the USA will use them. I don't expect they'll be used just because of skin or versions of the Bible.

If the Muslims ever made up 60% of our government, here is a hint........CONVERT!

RICKAMAVEN
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#22

TMCTLT

"Rfenst, With all due respect sir it IS your profession
who has manipulated and interpreted our Constitution
for decades and turned this wonderful country into the
abysmal mess that it is."

who appointed scalia, roberts and thomas to the
supreme court, regean, gw bush, and the young prince.

with any luck, thomas will be investigated and
impeached, scalia will show more signs of dementia,
and he will be asked to go fishing or hunting and stop
pretending he is a lawyer.

law·yer (lô“y…r) n. One whose profession is to give
legal advice and assistance to clients and represent
them in court or in other legal matters. (note it says legal
matters, not political or social matters.)

scalia has shown his lack of respect for the law by his
refusual to excuse himself from ruling on cases where
he has a personal relationship with one of the litigants.

if he excused hinself, thomas would have no one he
could copy a ruling from.

these and the people who appointed them are one of the
cause's of the coup d'é·tats that have taken place in my
lifetime, starting with the cold blooded murder of JFK.

do you think the founding father's envisioned a time
when a cabal of wealthy business owners could
secretly buy any elected office because of the amount
of money they could give a chosen candidate, to buy his
seat in the congress or the senate.

that is why we have (9%+) unemployment and never
again will anyone but a WASP sit in the oval office.

if you think it is bad now, if obama gets reelected, you
ain't seen nothin yet.

as an aside and before i forget, cheney was and still is a
war criminal. i hope he visits one of the countries in
europe that are waiting with open arms to arrest and try
him for his war crimes.

rfenst
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#23

Rfenst, With all due respect sir it IS your profession who has manipulated and interpreted our Constitution for decades and turned this wonderful country into the abysmal mess that it is. I'm not at all surprised that this is how you see it. Those folks were doing nothing wrong other than proving that they have limited rights while others are defended. It wasn't a Mob....they weren't disrespectful or inciting trouble. The police had no problem gleaning as much information from the three as possible.....how much do they know of the folks they so vehemently defended. That being said I'd still like to meet you and smoke a cigar......

TMCTLT wrote:

Instead of deflecting your attack towards lawyers and bootstrapping me into your unsupported allegation, why not simply refute what I said with your thoughts, point by point, if necessary?

Claiming that manipulation and interpretation of law is what "turned this wonderful country into a mess" so you aren't surprised that I see things differently than you do- is an utter, total, meaningless cop-out. Even worse,It blatantly pulls at the heart-strings that relate to other problems our country has- rather than the issue at hand. most important, it is an ad homonym abusive attack against lawyers and, by intended extension, myself . This topic and discussion has absolutely nothing at all to do with lawyers. Why go there?

The people in your video were definitely doing something wrong and disrespectful. They deliberately and insensitively violated the private, religious laws of other people- who were simply minding their own business. And, they did incite trouble- although thankfully not a free-for all, mob or riot, but trouble nonetheless. Who in their right mind intentionally wastes and diverts law enforcement resources and attention solely for the purpose of making a video. Not cool. Not right. Dead WRONG! You agree, right?

Look, I truly didn't see a single thing that even suggested that the content of the message in the pamphlets had ANYTHING to do with the people being told to move elsewhere to hand-out pamphlets. If you did, then please describe or show me where. Can you?

The only thing that video proved was that the pamphleteers were asked to move elsewhere and that three people claimed they could be arrested in Dearborn. There was no reference to any specific law, let alone any law favoring Islam over Christianity. If there is, pleas point it out to me in the video!

Why didn't they just apply for a permit,like I am certain the festival had to? That would have solved the very problem they manufactured for themselves, wouldn't it?

Edited by user 14 years ago | Reason: Not specified

HockeyDad
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#24

do you think the founding father's envisioned a time
when a cabal of wealthy business owners could
secretly buy any elected office because of the amount
of money they could give a chosen candidate, to buy his
seat in the congress or the senate.

RICKAMAVEN wrote:

Of course they did. A large portion of the founding fathers were Illuminati. The game is rigged. You just happen to believe one side is good and righteous and the other is evil yet your good and righteous side always let you down.

donutboy2000
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#25

TMCTLT

as an aside and before i forget, cheney was and still is a
war criminal.

RICKAMAVEN wrote:

.

IMPEACH THE

WAR

CRIMINAL

OBAMA

NOW!!!!

TMCTLT
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

14 years ago

#26

rfenst wrote:

It's true like it or not, there's a reason your profession is not so well embraced. And because folks like yourself see things differently than myself and you studied LAW makes your viewpoint correct every time yes? Let agree on one thing, there have and will continue to be many unsavory things done in the name of the law.

So let me get this straight, your saying they were ran off after law enforcement gleaned as much info from them as possible because they didn't have a permit? Secondly how in Gods creation did they violate any religious laws here? Private ? It was a festival....the Only mistake they made was being so obvious while trying to film the reaction of law enforcement once someone complained. Here in Indpls. derelicts from Farakan's organization step out / block traffic on one of the most traveled roads here in town.....no problem and I'm certain they have No permit. One other problem you folks who represent the Law seem to have, you think your the only ones in your right mind......](*,) If you feel personally offended and "bootstrapped" because of my comments...that's your problem not mine.

Edited by user 14 years ago | Reason: Not specified

rfenst
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#27

TMCTLT wrote:

Pamphleteering on public property is not an absolute right. It is always subject to reasonable restrictions when there is a compelling state interest.

The people in your video knew exactly what they were doing when they did it, and they had a specific reason for doing it. They planned it out well in advance. They accomplished exactly what they set out to do. They did not make any mistake.

Passing out Christian (or any other religion's) liturgy to those of another religion, knowing perfectly well that doing so is an affront to those of the other religion, is wrong. It is not a proper way to treat others. It is, at the very least, disrespectful, whether or not there is a complaint. Moreover, what the people in your video did violates Islamic law, per your very video.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see or hear anyone in your video complain. However, even if someone did and I simply missed it, that still has nothing to do with any of this. Neither does whatever Rev. Farrakhan's people do in your town. It was not part of the video. It does not take place in Dearborn. Your bringing it up after the fact just "muddies the waters" even more.

last, but certainly not least, slurring one you are "arguing" with (ad hominem abusive) does not prove that person's opinion, statemen(s) of fact or conclusion(s) to be wrong.

The last word to me on any of this is yours...

HockeyDad
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#28

Who in their right mind intentionally wastes and diverts law enforcement resources and attention solely for the purpose of making a video. Not cool. Not right. Dead WRONG! You agree, right?

rfenst wrote:

You mean like every single protest in the history of the USA since the camera was invented? I can only imagine the amount of law enforcement wasted and diverted during the 1960s civil rights movements.

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#29

I sleep just fine wrapped in the protection of the Patriot Act.[frypan]

RICKAMAVEN
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#30

MVD

HOW DID YOU SLEEP BEFORE THE PATRIOT ACT?

RICKAMAVEN
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#31

Christians arrested in Michigan for handing out pamphlets
outside Arab festival

IS THIS THE VIDEO YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT.

I WANT THOSE COPS AROUND WHEN THESE RELIGIOUS
GROUPS, ANY RELIGIOUS GROUPS KNOCK ON MY DOOR
AND WAKE ME ON A SUNDAY BEFORE NOON.

DO YOU REMEMBER TOM LEHRER? IF YOU DON'T WHERE
HAVE YOU BEEN?

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#32

MVD

HOW DID YOU SLEEP BEFORE THE PATRIOT ACT?

RICKAMAVEN wrote:

Like a baby.

TMCTLT
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

14 years ago

#33

Pamphleteering on public property is not an absolute right. It is always subject to reasonable restrictions when there is a compelling state interest. Please read here : If we cannot charge a fee your not doing it!!

The people in your video knew exactly what they were doing when they did it, and they had a specific reason for doing it. They planned it out well in advance. They accomplished exactly what they set out to do. They did not make any mistake. Of course they knew what they were doing, it was a fact finding mission on rather our Laws give equal tolerance to our Constitutional rights.

Passing out Christian (or any other religion's) liturgy to those of another religion, knowing perfectly well that doing so is an affront to those of the other religion, is wrong. It is not a proper way to treat others. It is, at the very least, disrespectful, whether or not there is a complaint. Moreover, what the people in your video did violates Islamic law, per your very video. [h]Last I checked this is the United States, we don't abide by Islamic Law....

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see or hear anyone in your video complain. However, even if someone did and I simply missed it, that still has nothing to do with any of this. Neither does whatever Rev. Farrakhan's people do in your town. It was not part of the video. It does not take place in Dearborn. Your bringing it up after the fact just "muddies the waters" even more.

last, but certainly not least, slurring one you are "arguing" with (ad hominem abusive) does not prove that person's opinion, statemen(s) of fact or conclusion(s) to be wrong. Robert this was / is not a personal affront on you and I'm sorry your profession is as unsavory as it is, however if you want to look @ all that is wrong about our country an Attorney (who's manipulated the word of the law) is behind it.

The last word to me on any of this is yours...

rfenst wrote:

Ok, I've changed my mind I'd rather smoke a cigar with a snake. At least he cannot help what he is or does....
Your profession should try talking to people so as NOT to intentionally deceive or evade in an attempt make them feel less intelligent by constantly creating / using verbiage only you understand.
They should also try NOT making laws and different Bills so lengthy in content that NOONE is willing to read them.
Definition

ver·bi·age
NOUN
1.
excess of words: an excess of words that add little or nothing to the meaning
2.
wording: the style of language in which something is expressed
"bureaucratic verbiage"

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#34

HockeyDad wrote:

not sure I agree that the Civil Rights movement was a photo op requiring wasted law enforcement. strange analogy to this case.

HockeyDad
Herf-A-Holic

14 years ago

#35

Would you prefer anti-Vietnam War protests? Anti-Iraq War protests?

All photo-ops that wasted and diverted law enforcement time. I can't recall too many protests that were designed to be stealthy and go unnoticed.

It is just more selective morality. If we think the protest subject was worthwhile, It was not a waste and diversion of law enforcement personnel. If we think the protest was BS, It was a waste and diversion of law enforcement personnel.

mtbat21
Enthusiast

14 years ago

#36

i understood what you ment, just not what mtbat21 wrote. What does it mean?

rfenst wrote:

The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize right now in Muslim communities. You know them. You know where they are. Hand them over to us, NOW! But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have
posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisals

What I was trying to get across is that it seems the Muslim community is hiding the suspects to be questioned, and if so why, if the system works the jury will decide if it goes to one. It seems the "community" does not believe in our system yet live in our country.