ZRX1200
  • ZRX1200
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
13 years ago
Upon the advice of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, President Obama has confirmed his intention to sign two controversial U.N. treaties --the Law of the Sea Treaty (LOST) and the so called "small arms" treaty.

Although many citizens and elected representatives are sounding the alarm about the small arms treaty, such as this entry Sunday at the Daily Paul, some political observers note that the treaty is unlikely to pass the Senate. But a very different scenario is developing for the Law of the Sea.

Twenty Republican senators are set to join with Democrats in upholding LOST. Some who are included in the list of 20 are those who have not yet decided how they will vote on the issue. Thus, the list of 20 includes those who have either declared support for LOST or declined to indicate their views on the subject one way or the other

In a breaking update, two of the 20 Republican senators have now indicated they will oppose the Law of the Sea Treaty. One political activist stated that it is important for citizens to call the offices of all 20 to make sure those Senators are on the record with their intent to vote against the treaty. McConnell and Toomey now state they will vote no.

The U.S. Constitution grants authority to presidents to enter into treaty agreements with other nations and entities. But due to the fact that a treaty, if approved, becomes the law of the land, the U.S. Senate must approve by an exact two-thirds majority rather than the simple supermajority of 60 votes. This means that 67 votes are needed in the Senate to approve a treaty.

Most political observers believe that all 53 Democrats in the Senate will vote to approve LOST. And if the 20 Republicans who have failed to indicate opposition to the treaty hold firm, the Senate will have more than the required 67 votes to pass.

The 20 Republicans who are apparently set to uphold the treaty, or who have not yet decided, are Enzi, McConnell, Hutchison, Toomey, Johanns, Ayotte, Graham, McCain, Lugar, Kirk, Snowe, Collins, Murkowski, Isakson, Grassley, Portman, Corker, Cochran, Brown, and Alexander.

This is a continually developing story that is changing on an hour by hour basis. For the latest information on who in the Senate has decided to oppose the treaty, consult late breaking articles here and here.

In 1983 President Ronald Reagan rejected LOST outright due to encroachments on U.S. sovereignty. Thus, the question arises as to why these 20 Republicans would be indicating support for a treaty that Reagan saw as an international attempt to usurp American sovereignty and thus supersede the U.S. Constitution.

The small arms treaty, on the other hand, is facing a much more difficult task in gaining the approval of the Senate. Although it is possible to muster 67 votes to approve, too many Democrats are facing reelection in states where gun rights are important. Democrats now have a 53 seat majority. Even if all of the Democrats voted in favor, 14 Republicans would have to join them in order for the measure to pass.

In an election year during a period of time in U.S. history when citizens have indicated in various ways that they oppose any more gun control in any form, it is difficult to imagine 14 Republicans voting in favor of such a treaty.

But as indicated by Forbes Magazine such assumptions are premature. Some senators are always loathe to oppose any treaty signed by a president for the fear of negatively impacting U.S. prestige on the international stage.

Thus, conservatives have sounded the alarm about the treaty to make sure citizens pressure their senators to vote no.

A look at some of the provisions of the treaty will reveal why many conservatives are alarmed. By international law all citizens in the United States would find it more difficult to purchase firearms due to tough registration and licensing requirements. The sale and private ownership of all semi-automatic firearms would be banned. And an international registry of gun owners would be created, which many gun rights enthusiasts view as a precursor to a worldwide ban on gun ownership.

Using the United Nations to enact strict gun control measures on Americans could be what Obama meant when he stated months ago that his administration is working on gun control "under the radar."
DrafterX
13 years ago
That Bassard..!! 😠
bloody spaniard
13 years ago
Our Maryland senators take their marching orders from Mr. Executive Privilege but these treaties will never pass the House.
DrMaddVibe
13 years ago
Call them what?[whip]
HockeyDad
13 years ago
bloody spaniard
13 years ago
UN political eunuch outrage?
jojoc
13 years ago
I love articles that don't say anything!


so, just because Ronald thought it was a bad idea, I should call my senator to tell them to vote no on LOST? what exactly is it about LOST that I should be so upset about?
schusler
13 years ago

I love articles that don't say anything!


so, just because Ronald thought it was a bad idea, I should call my senator to tell them to vote no on LOST? what exactly is it about LOST that I should be so upset about?

jojoc wrote:



not sure on lost but on the arms treaty


On July 27th, the nations of the world are scheduled to meet in New York to sign a global Arms Trade Treaty (ATT). Disguised as a way to prevent the proliferation of small arms throughout the world, it is, in fact, a backdoor way to legislate gun control in the United States and effectively repeal our Second Amendment.

The ATT will set up a global body, which will require all nations to regulate firearms so that they can prevent their exportation to other countries. Inevitably, this will require countries to inventory the guns in private hands and to register them. A gun ban is not far away.

The ATT, under the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution, would have the power of a constitutional amendment and would, effectively, repeal the Second Amendment guaranteeing us the right to bear arms. We must fight to stop the US from signing the treaty and, if we fail, block Senate ratification.
Brewha
13 years ago
I have been calling my Senator things for years, and it does not seem to help.
(Though I often feel better)
ZRX1200
  • ZRX1200
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
13 years ago
Google Doug Bandow CEI LOST treaty its a quick PDF file.
jojoc
13 years ago

not sure on lost but on the arms treaty


On July 27th, the nations of the world are scheduled to meet in New York to sign a global Arms Trade Treaty (ATT). Disguised as a way to prevent the proliferation of small arms throughout the world, it is, in fact, a backdoor way to legislate gun control in the United States and effectively repeal our Second Amendment.

The ATT will set up a global body, which will require all nations to regulate firearms so that they can prevent their exportation to other countries. Inevitably, this will require countries to inventory the guns in private hands and to register them. A gun ban is not far away.

The ATT, under the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution, would have the power of a constitutional amendment and would, effectively, repeal the Second Amendment guaranteeing us the right to bear arms. We must fight to stop the US from signing the treaty and, if we fail, block Senate ratification.

schusler wrote:



do you have authority for this interpretation of the Supremacy Clause? Basically, the purpose of the Supremacy Clause was to confirm that Federal Law is Supreme to State laws. It also confirms that Treaties are considered part of the body of Federal Law, along with statutes passed by congress. To my knowledge, there is nothing in the current interpretation of the Supremacy Clause that prevents the Supreme Court from striking down a law (or treaty) that otherwise violates the US Constitution.
jojoc
13 years ago

Google Doug Bandow CEI LOST treaty its a quick PDF file.

ZRX1200 wrote:



Have not read the PDF. My point was not so much about LOST itself as the poor writing of the article. If one of the points of the article is that I should take action to stop the passage of a law/treaty/etc., explain the basis of why I should do so other than "Ronald Reagan thought it was a bad idea"
schusler
13 years ago

not sure on lost but on the arms treaty


On July 27th, the nations of the world are scheduled to meet in New York to sign a global Arms Trade Treaty (ATT). Disguised as a way to prevent the proliferation of small arms throughout the world, it is, in fact, a backdoor way to legislate gun control in the United States and effectively repeal our Second Amendment.

The ATT will set up a global body, which will require all nations to regulate firearms so that they can prevent their exportation to other countries. Inevitably, this will require countries to inventory the guns in private hands and to register them. A gun ban is not far away.

The ATT, under the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution, would have the power of a constitutional amendment and would, effectively, repeal the Second Amendment guaranteeing us the right to bear arms. We must fight to stop the US from signing the treaty and, if we fail, block Senate ratification.

schusler wrote:


do you have authority for this interpretation of the Supremacy Clause? Basically, the purpose of the Supremacy Clause was to confirm that Federal Law is Supreme to State laws. It also confirms that Treaties are considered part of the body of Federal Law, along with statutes passed by congress. To my knowledge, there is nothing in the current interpretation of the Supremacy Clause that prevents the Supreme Court from striking down a law (or treaty) that otherwise violates the US Constitution.

jojoc wrote:

I GUESS IF THEY AMEND THE CONSTITUTION THEN IT WOULDNT BE A VIOLATION.](*,)
rfenst
13 years ago

I love articles that don't say anything!


so, just because Ronald thought it was a bad idea, I should call my senator to tell them to vote no on LOST? what exactly is it about LOST that I should be so upset about?

jojoc wrote:




What the hell is your problem? Obama wants it, therefore it is evil. You do not need to know what it is about- just make sure your legislator votes against it!!!
ZRX1200
  • ZRX1200
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
13 years ago
Giving sovereignty to the UN.

Its simple.

HockeyDad
13 years ago
Eurocopter Tigre: coming to skies near you. We're here to help.



jojoc
13 years ago

not sure on lost but on the arms treaty


On July 27th, the nations of the world are scheduled to meet in New York to sign a global Arms Trade Treaty (ATT). Disguised as a way to prevent the proliferation of small arms throughout the world, it is, in fact, a backdoor way to legislate gun control in the United States and effectively repeal our Second Amendment.

The ATT will set up a global body, which will require all nations to regulate firearms so that they can prevent their exportation to other countries. Inevitably, this will require countries to inventory the guns in private hands and to register them. A gun ban is not far away.

The ATT, under the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution, would have the power of a constitutional amendment and would, effectively, repeal the Second Amendment guaranteeing us the right to bear arms. We must fight to stop the US from signing the treaty and, if we fail, block Senate ratification.

schusler wrote:



I GUESS IF THEY AMEND THE CONSTITUTION THEN IT WOULDNT BE A VIOLATION.](*,)

schusler wrote:




that was my question -- what is the authority to back up the position that approval of a treaty equals a constitutional amendment? there is nothing in the supremacy clause that states or causes that result.

the supremacy clause states:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.

A treaty that violates the terms of the Constitution can be struck down just like "the Laws of the United States" can be struck.

So again, where is the authority that this treaty if affirmed by the Senate = a constitutional amendment. Per the Constitution, an amendment must pass both houses of congress by 2/3 and be ratified by 3/4 of the states. A treaty is ratified by the President, subject to the consent of 2/3 of the Senate - a much lower standard.

The claim that this Treaty if ratified will modify/amend the Constitution is BS scare tactics at its finest!
jojoc
13 years ago

What the hell is your problem? Obama wants it, therefore it is evil. You do not need to know what it is about- just make sure your legislator votes against it!!!

rfenst wrote:





😂 😂
ZRX1200
  • ZRX1200
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
13 years ago
So citizens should wait for the courts to do the right thing instead of trying to stop passage in the first place?

You have much more faith in the govt. than me.
Users browsing this topic