Buckwheat
12 years ago
And the band played on. Both parties are in this boat together. They will have hearings and give speeches and the news outlets and talking heads will discuss, disagree and debate this until the midterms and then nothing will ever come from it. 🐴
DrafterX
12 years ago
“Dude, this was like two years ago.”

😟
DrMaddVibe
12 years ago

General: We Didn't Even Try To Save American Lives In Benghazi

A former general is accusing the U.S. military of not even trying to save the Americans under attack at Benghazi in 2012.

A high-ranking officer in the U.S. Africa Command on the night of the Benghazi attacks is now saying that the U.S. military did not try and was never even ordered to save the Americans under attack at the U.S. diplomatic outpost on the September 11, 2012 attack.

In explosive testimony before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, retired Air Force Brigadier General Robert Lovell said bluntly about the military’s response on the night of the Benghazi attack: “The discussion is not in the ‘could or could not’ in relation to time, space and capability, the point is we should have tried.”

In many ways, this contradicts the testimony of more senior military officers, such as a former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Admiral Mike Mullen, who have said the assets were not in place on the night of the attack to get to the Benghazi diplomatic post and nearby CIA annex in time to make a difference.

On the evening of the attack a CIA team did get to the U.S. diplomatic compound in time to save all but two U.S. officials: U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and a State Department officer, Sean Smith. That team fought their way back to the CIA annex with other Americans and sustained a low-level firefight throughout the evening. A second team from Tripoli arrived in Benghazi after commandeering an airplane and being delayed at the airport. Then, at around dawn, two well-aimed mortar shots killed two more former Navy SEALS, Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty.

A report from the House Armed Services Committee as well as the State Department’s own Accountability Review Board report on the Benghazi incident concluded that no military assets were in place to get U.S. personnel to Benghazi in time. On Thursday, Rep. Howard "Buck" McKeon, the Republican chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, said Lovell was not in a position to comment on military options for the night of the attacks. "BG Lovell did not serve in a capacity that gave him reliable insight into operational options available to commanders during the attack, nor did he offer specific courses of action not taken," he said.

Lovell, who served as the deputy director for intelligence for Africa Command on the night of attacks and was in a secure facility monitoring the situation, agreed that military assets were not in place to get to Benghazi for the initial attack in his testimony

But he also said, “We didn’t know how long this would last when we became aware of the distress nor did we completely understand what we had in front of us, be it a kidnapping, rescue, recovery, protracted hostile engagement or any or all of the above.”

He added, “But what we did know quite early on was that this was a hostile action. This was no demonstration gone terrible awry.”

Lovell also said the State Department never asked the military for backup that evening. “Basically, there was a lot of looking to the State Department for what they wanted and the deference to the Libyan people and the sense of deference to the desires of the State Department in terms of what they would like to have,” he said when asked why no request was made. McKeon, however, disputed this. “The Armed Services Committee has interviewed more than a dozen witnesses in the operational chain of command that night, yielding thousands of pages of transcripts, e-mails, and other documents,” he said. “We have no evidence that Department of State officials delayed the decision to deploy what few resources DoD had available to respond.”


On the Sunday following the attack, then-U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice described the attacks as a protest against an Internet video depicting the life of the Muslim prophet Mohammed. Throughout the Muslim world, demonstrations sprung up outside U.S. embassies on September 11, 2012.

Lovell said the military lacked any direction from Washington that evening. “My observation was they were still looking for more decisions,” he said when asked about whether U.S. military officers at Africa Command had been given the proper orders to respond to the attack.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/01/general-we-didn-t-even-try-to-save-american-lives-in-benghazi.html#url=/articles/2014/05/01/general-we-didn-t-even-try-to-save-american-lives-in-benghazi.html 



The drum keeps on beating, yes. Our sons and daughters are being stretched like a hide over a drum for what?

DrMaddVibe
12 years ago

“Dude, this was like two years ago.”

😟

DrafterX wrote:




"What does it matter?"[whip]
jackconrad
12 years ago
So now the statue of Limitations for Manslaughter is only a year and a half ???
DrMaddVibe
12 years ago
So much for "From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli", eh?
jackconrad
12 years ago
I will never forget or forgive until Justice is done..
TMCTLT
12 years ago
With any luck they'll get their commission with Gowdy @ the head and mebbe finally get some answers and heads rolled
DrafterX
12 years ago
they'll prolly seal everything for fifty years... 😟
teedubbya
12 years ago
Just to balance things...

(CNN) -- What happened in Benghazi, Libya, was a tragedy -- not a scandal. And no amount of Republican witch hunting or wishful thinking will make it otherwise.

Now a new e-mail "reveals" what was already plainly known, that the White House participated in crafting talking points in the aftermath of attacks in Libya and around the globe. Republicans claim the White House "politicized" the talking points. The irony, of course, is that Republicans have been desperate to politicize Benghazi from day one. Fueled by the relentless conservative message machine, it can be hard to have a reasonable discussion about Benghazi, one that relies on facts. So let's try to have that conversation here.

What exactly are the Republican accusations regarding Benghazi?

The main Republican critique appears to be that the White House and State Department politicized talking points given to U.N Ambassador Susan Rice, who spoke about the attacks on American TV five days later. Republicans argue the White House deliberately downplayed the involvement of al Qaeda and played up the spontaneous nature of the protests as a reaction to an anti-Islam video, to avoid tarnishing President Obama's national security record in advance of the 2012 presidential election. This, despite the fact that the White House talking points matched those produced by the CIA.

Republicans also have criticized the Obama administration for not responding to the attacks more aggressively when they happened, though a bipartisan Senate investigation found that military resources simply weren't in position to help. Similarly, Rep. Darrell Issa, the Republican most aggressively pressing Benghazi accusations, says he has "suspicions" that Hillary Clinton gave "stand down" orders to stop military resources from deploying to Benghazi even though a Republican report to the Armed Services Committee says that no such "stand down" order was issued.

In addition, Republicans have criticized the Obama administration for not doing more to prevent the attacks, such as beefing up consular security. Yet it was the same House Republicans who initially denied the Obama administration's request for additional embassy security funding.


What do we believe actually happened that night in Benghazi?


The answer to that question depends on when you're asking it. We know that the killing of four Americans on September 11, 2012, including U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens, was in part the result of pre-coordinated terrorist activity. According to an extensive investigation by The New York Times, "The attack does not appear to have been meticulously planned, but neither was it spontaneous or without warning signs." The Times also reports that the attack was "fueled in large part by anger at an American-made video denigrating Islam."


But in critiquing the Obama administration's comments in 2012 in the moments during and after the Benghazi attack, what would seem more relevant is what the White House and intelligence community reasonably believed was happening.

After all, at the same time as the unrest in Benghazi, violent outbursts very clearly in reaction to the anti-Islam video were going on in Egypt, Yemen and Sudan. The night of the Benghazi attacks, Al Jazeera reported they appeared to be spontaneous protests against the anti-Islam film.

Of course we don't know the classified intelligence, but it would not seem preposterous to believe what was happening in Benghazi was more spontaneous protests rather than pre-planned terrorism. And even if affiliates of al Qaeda were suspected to be involved, it's not surprising that the intelligence community would not want to show its hand amid active efforts to track and capture those responsible. It was the CIA that removed the reference to al Qaeda, according to e-mails released to CNN by the White House.


Here is what Susan Rice said, four days later, that in retrospect seems so wildly misleading to conservatives:

"Our current best assessment based on the information that we have at present is that, in fact, what this began as was a spontaneous, not a premeditated, response to what had transpired in Cairo. In Cairo, as you know, a few hours earlier, there was a violent protest that was undertaken in reaction to this very offensive video that was disseminated.

"We believe that folks in Benghazi, a small number of people, came to the embassy to—or to the consulate, rather—to replicate the sort of challenge that was posed in Cairo. And then, as that unfolded, it seems to have been hijacked, let us say, by some individual clusters of extremists who came with heavier weapons, weapons that, as you know, in the wake of the revolution in Libya, are quite common and accessible. And it then evolved from there."

That seems not only responsibly cautious in the wake of a complicated and still-unfolding national tragedy, but strikingly accurate.

But the talking points were edited! For political motivations!

That's what talking points are, they are the way political figures on both sides of the aisle attempt to tell the facts in the most favorable light. That said, the CIA gave both parties in Congress the same "talking points" it prepared for Rice. And, as noted, there are plausible national security reasons for not wanting to show our entire intelligence hand amid an active investigation.

This responsible caution stands in direct contrast, for instance, to the Bush administration deliberately distorting not only talking points but also actual intelligence reports for political purposes to justify the war in Iraq. Or consider that just hours after the Benghazi killings, even before the White House had made a statement, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney condemned the Obama administration's response. Those talking points were definitely political.

The talking points not only seem consistent with events on the ground at the time but with what we now know, per The New York Times and several congressional reports. Yet that hasn't stopped Sen. John McCain from suggesting that editing talking points amounted to a "cover-up" and Rep. Eric Cantor from saying the White House "misled" the American public.

Can't we have an honest, open investigation and settle this once and for all?

We have. Several times. And then some. So far, Politico reports, Republican congressional investigations on Benghazi have included "13 hearings, 25,000 pages of documents and 50 briefings." In a letter written in March 2014 responding to a request for information from a ranking Democrat in the House Armed Services Committee, the Pentagon notes:

"The department has devoted thousands of man-hours to responding to numerous and often repetitive congressional requests regarding Benghazi, which includes time devoted to approximately 50 congressional hearings, briefings and interviews which the department has led or participated in. The total cost of compliance with Benghazi-related congressional requests sent to the department and other agencies is estimated to be in the millions of dollars."

A bipartisan report by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence determined that "there were no efforts by the White House or any other executive branch entities to 'cover-up' facts or make alterations for political purposes." The report did say the attack could have been prevented and blamed the State Department, military and U.S. intelligence community for failing to do so.

What difference does it make?

Great question. And one taken from a quote by Hillary Clinton, made during her testimony on Benghazi to the House Oversight Committee. Conservatives use the line to suggest that Clinton is callous toward the loss of life in Benghazi. No. Here's the full context:

Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wisconsin: "No, again, we were misled that there were supposedly protests and that something sprang out of that -- an assault sprang out of that -- and that was easily ascertained that that was not the fact, and the American people could have known that within days and they didn't know that."

Clinton: "With all due respect, the fact is we had four dead Americans. Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night who decided that they'd go kill some Americans? What difference at this point does it make? It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again.

"Now, honestly, I will do my best to answer your questions about this, but the fact is that people were trying in real time to get to the best information. ... But you know, to be clear, it is, from my perspective, less important today looking backward as to why these militants decided they did it than to find them and bring them to justice, and then maybe we'll figure out what was going on in the meantime."

"I take responsibility," Clinton said four days after the Benghazi attacks, before Susan Rice ever said a word. "I do feel responsible," Clinton reiterated at the hearings in January 2013. When things went wrong in Benghazi, the Obama administration took responsibility.

But when Republicans have the facts wrong on Benghazi, they don't do the responsible thing and drop it. They keep pursuing their partisan witch hunt, wasting millions of taxpayer dollars desperate to smear Obama and 2016 presidential front-runner Clinton with anything that will stick.

The facts on Benghazi simply do not undercut the Obama administration, but that won't stop Republicans from digging for mud.
DrMaddVibe
12 years ago
CNN still going with the YouTube lie?

Seriously?

TW...that article is only a talking point memo to rail against ANYONE using critical thinking skills on the hows and whys 4 Americans are dead. The continual cover-up by the "most transparent administration ever" is nauseating. It shows how over their heads they are in effective leadership and they don't care who sees it now. Just pass out the candy and they'll go away.
teedubbya
12 years ago
meh. just presenting another view. This subject reminds me of the birther garbage. Something's gotta stick at some point.
teedubbya
12 years ago
I heard Hillary flew by on a zip line and mowed them all down herself. She hates embassy staff.
DrafterX
12 years ago
wow... just wow... 😟
victor809
12 years ago
"critical thinking skills" HAHAHAHAH
DrMaddVibe
12 years ago

"critical thinking skills" HAHAHAHAH

victor809 wrote:




Eat mor chikin!
ZRX1200
12 years ago
Teedubya you ever move artillery?


Spontaneous my azz.......

He had half the normal embassy detail and asked to have it upped to 24 (normal) instead Hilldog cut the half down by half.

C130 gunships kept at bay, ARMED drones took video. Generals who inquired about being told to stand down were releived of duty.
teedubbya
12 years ago

Teedubya you ever move artillery?


Spontaneous my azz.......



The answer to that question depends on when you're asking it. We know that the killing of four Americans on September 11, 2012, including U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens, was in part the result of pre-coordinated terrorist activity. According to an extensive investigation by The New York Times, "The attack does not appear to have been meticulously planned, but neither was it spontaneous or without warning signs." The Times also reports that the attack was "fueled in large part by anger at an American-made video denigrating Islam."

ZRX1200 wrote:




He had half the normal embassy detail and asked to have it upped to 24 (normal) instead Hilldog cut the half down by half.


In addition, Republicans have criticized the Obama administration for not doing more to prevent the attacks, such as beefing up consular security. Yet it was the same House Republicans who initially denied the Obama administration's request for additional embassy security funding.

CNN wrote:




C130 gunships kept at bay, ARMED drones took video. Generals who inquired about being told to stand down were releived of duty.

CNN wrote:




I would have thought one of the 2,597 investigations by congress would have had that intel and drawn those conclusions. Maybe I expect too much. By the way most spaghetti thrown at the wall has been debunked, including some words from a General lately. But it's all ignored. Something must be there.
teedubbya
12 years ago
At least there will be another inquiry.... maybe this time they will get that wascally wabbit.
victor809
12 years ago

I would have thought one of the 2,597 investigations by congress would have had that intel and drawn those conclusions. Maybe I expect too much.

teedubbya wrote:



I see where you missed it TW.
Z has info which congress wasn't given. He's in the loop like that. ;)

This benghazi thing is starting to feel like the birthers all over again.
I'm glad we don't trust our legislators blindly... they are idiots and really unworthy of leading this country. But really, we've heard the republican's best shots at making this into an actual scandal so many times...
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