Better to be a flawed a christian than an atheist.















































AMEN !!!!!

Only if your right... otherwise we're all in the same boat.

We are all in the same boat.

He is the ONLY way out:

Mt 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Re 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

How cute...
I can quote things too.

From the book of "Nature", 04.25.53 (2) 171, 737-738 By the word of JD Watson and FHC Crick

"We wish to put forward a radically different structure for the salt of deoxyribose nucleic acid (5). This structure has two helical chains each coiled round the same axis (see diagram). We have made the usual chemical assumptions, namely, that each chain consists of phosphate diester groups joining beta-D-deoxyribofuranose residues with 3',5' linkages. The two chains (but not their bases) are related by a dyad perpendicular to the fibre axis. Both chains follow right-handed helices, but owing to the dyad the sequences of the atoms in the two chains run in opposite directions (6) . Each chain loosely resembles Furberg's2 model No. 1 (7); that is, the bases are on the inside of the helix and the phosphates on the outside. The configuration of the sugar and the atoms near it is close to Furberg's "standard configuration," the sugar being roughly perpendicular to the attached base. There is a residue on each every 3.4 A. in the z-direction. We have assumed an angle of 36° between adjacent residues in the same chain, so that the structure repeats after 10 residues on each chain, that is, after 34 A. The distance of a phosphorus atom from the fibre axis is 10 A. As the phosphates are on the outside, cations have easy access to them."

The difference is that my quote can be backed up by repeatable experiments. Has yours?

What are you two boneheads doing in Madison at Hemmingways and NOT letting me know. 8track should know better than that!! SHEESH!!

In my defense, I didn't know we had anyone here from Madison.

I've sent out a call to madisonians before, no one told me they were around... So, next time 8 gets his $ss down here, We'll bring you along.

Vic

I was not at all meaning to be cute and I'm sorry if you took it wrong. My Grandmother who lived to be 93 was a atheist and my father who was a self proclaimed atheist as well (he's 78) is beginning to think maybe there is more. (maybe I'm getting to him, LOL) any how check this guy out. I listen to him on the radio and he loses me most of the time, my mind can't keep up with his, LOL.


http://www.khouse.org/6640/CD103/ 

.... go get'em Dan

If God can save Pablo he can save anyone !

yup...tis true

This guy is simply trying to transfer existing unknowns into religion. There is nothing particularly exciting about his attempts. I read his article on "Unraveling DNA's Design", which simply was a high school overview of DNA. In essence, he said "it's amazing that it works so efficiently, therefore god must have done it".

This idea that anything we can't explain must be supernatural is completely at odds with how we should conduct ourselves. We should instead be saying "how does DNA manage to compact itself?" and discover the answer. Rather than saying "at infinitely small distances, matter no longer acts in a manner we normally can measure... so god must exist", we should say "what is wrong about our current views on physics that allows this anomoly and how can we alter them so that we have a better grasp on the universe".

Just because we don't have the answer to something, does not mean that god exists. By forcing a "catch-all" answer into any question of natural laws, all you end up with is bad answers. It is this sort of thinking that caused people to believe the world was on the back of a turtle, or that the earth was flat.

Humanism, the "new" old religion. It is just mans way of denying that God does exists. It is being taught in our colleges across this country and around the world. It is really nothing new between God and man. Man in his pride and arrogance claming we don't need you or your ways. I guess it does come down to a step of faith into who you are going to believe.Not that there is any thing wrong with understanding how this world works and to use it to our benefit. I just think we as a human race need to acknowledge who made it happen.

Humanism,
Education is thus a most powerful ally of humanism. What can the theistic Sunday schools, meeting for an hour once a week, and teaching only a fraction of the children, do to stem the tide of a five-day program of humanistic teaching?
-1933, Charles Francis Potter, Humanism, A New Religion

Jesus own words,
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no-one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

The Bible was nothing more to me than just a book of words until at age 29 when I asked Him into my life and it became clear as to what the truth is. It is that first step of faith that leads to a greater understanding of His presence in this world and in every true believers heart.Flawed like 8track said, yes, but striving for that greater prize(in His power) that nothing in this world can offer or compare too.




Humanism,
There is no God and no soul. Hence there are no needs for the props of traditional religion. With dogma and creed excluded, the immutable truth is also dead and buried. There is no room for fixed, natural law or permanent moral absolutes.



God's word,
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

I have never looked at my relationship with Jesus as a religion. Humanism is a religion but Christianity practiced as a relationship is just that a relationship with the one and only living God. Christianity practiced as a religion is just the same as any other religion.Just mans way of controlling or appeasing his god. We all worship something, believe it or not it was what we were created for. But I guess that is what this post is about. Or what 8 first thought he would name it,"8track(the Christian) & The Atheist" LOL

From the mouth of Peter the fisherman,he sometimes had trouble with this one himself.LOL

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,



If either one of you make it out to Southern California we will have too hook up for some cold beers and fine cigars.I'm sure MACS and the rest of us out here would enjoy meeting you both.Was it 8track that traded MACS for the shirt? I will have to find it and top it so we can look at MACS saggy butt, LOL .I was at his house with echo4alpha when he got it.

BTW, I like the picture, something about the blur adds to it.

dandapper at adelphia dot net

Dan

DD -

You have a problem, you are stuck in the idea of a religion. "Humanism" as you define it, is not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about putting my faith in anything, whether it be a god or science. This is because science does not ask for faith. If something still has holes in it, it is not considered a truth. The Big Bang theory of universe creation is still just that, a theory. What was before that? We don't know, but I'm sure people are trying to find ways to figure it out.

If your god came down and said 'Hi", I'd believe he existed. Still wouldn't be too interested in following him (I have issues with his methods), but I'd believe he exists at that time. But if you want to follow someone with an ego problem, feel free.

What I'm saying is that I ask for proof in something before I believe it. If I told you to give me 500 cigars and you'd be repayed after death "trust me". Would you? If I had a long book everyone said I wrote through men 2000 years ago, would you? A book is no better than the author, yet you seem to think that a 2000 year old book should dictate your belief system.

looks like 808 is going to be a tuff nut ta crack

O K, I'm back, worked out , mowed the lawn, on the Sabbath? every day is the Sabbath. I rest in His grace ,Ok, I will stop preaching, LOL.

Pablo, I know why is he being so difficult ? I thought for sure I would come back after all that and Vic would say, "Dan , what must I do to be saved" LOL


Vic, problem , problem you think I have a problem ? In my best Robert Denero voice ,I know it was "you think I'm funny" to Ray Lolita. Name that Movie. LOL

All kidding aside Vic I totally know where you are coming from. I very much believed the same way 19 years ago. I was pretty much a atheist but thought along the lines of George Lucas in that god was just a force we could tap into. Jesus was just a guy that tapped into it and had some cool things to say. I thought the god of Christianity was a very arrogant god to think he was the only one and that man(as the bible stated) was above all other living matter.I tried many different religions for a time and came to the conclusion they were all a bunch of bunk! My life was going just fine for the next ten years. I owned my own house worked and played hard. Life was O K ,I was done searching. Then I met this girl, she was real. Not like the other chicks I was going out with.She got me to go to church with her. It took me about 6 months of going to this church that this ex drug dealer was the pastor and just read from the bible and taught. It was a analytical decision for me. I got to the point I just had to say to myself that it was the truth. I went because the girl I was dating was a Christian, now my wife. I was tricked, LOL. I also do not believe in coincidences. I have never met 8track and I don't think I have ever even talked to him via this board but I know from what he said he is a true believer." I'm a flawed Christine ", that is something some one who knows Jesus would say.Humbled before his God. I know you guys talked about our God because what he said, I'm still a Christian and you are still a atheist. It seems like the conversation is some what continuing here. There are a lot of guys on this site that are true believers Pablo, 8track , myself to name the ones who posted on this thread and many more. They can speak up themselves if they catch this thread. But I do know a little more about where your coming from in that you are not some college kid brain washed by his professors, LOL. But nor am I when it comes to my faith. I respect the fact that you do not buy into either view but into the one that is your own,so to speak. You never know, maybe there is a God and He has a plan for you. I may never look at the # 8 in the same way, LOL.And yes there is faith involved but it is not blind. When you see real things happening in your life you trust more and more. It is not easy at times and those who preach give your life to Jesus and every thing will be fine are leading people astray.It is a personal relationship and NOT a religion, at least for me. I get hyped up after working out so I guess that is why I'm a little long winded LOL . Take care,

Dan

keep up the good work Dan, I think you got him right where you want him.

Ya know Pablo maybe this is not about Vic. That is the cool thing about this site is that it is not a private conversation. There are people who never post and just lurk and maybe it was something that they were ready to hear. God works in mysterious ways.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.

If you have never seen the movie the passion of the Christ check it out.Even if your not a believer. He did come to earth and say hi, died a horrific death in my place and rose from the dead. He will be back! It is well done by Mel Gibson. Brave hart another great movie of his. Both awesome films.

I think this thread wins in the category of "most posts on a fuzzy picture".

Dan,
I like reading you. There is a certain casualness in your posts. I generally don't like discussing religion much. Your approach is "Tucker-Lite". Too much fire and brimstone makes me walk away from the flame. That's what turns me off to Tucker.

I could have been Victor 20 years ago. I never called my self an atheist, but I basically was. Got real close to life's edge and even dangled a foot over the edge. Gave up on family, friends and a good woman. Basically gave up, period.

For some reason, that I still to this day can't figure out why, and I'm not sure I could really explain it to a "real Christian", Jesus decided to befriend me.

I'm not a Born Again. I rarely go to church- much to the chagrin of some family members. But I became Jesus's friend.

Now you don't have to be friends with all my friends. I can deal with people not liking some of my friends. But I do have a limited tolerance for people that continue to attack my friends.

When I met with Victor, I took a liking to him. In one great ironic twist of fate, me- the near atheist of the mid 1980's was surrounded by two atheists (Victor and the bartender) and a friend of mine that is rapidly losing faith.

The discussion went to religion, it got bantered about a bit and it was dropped. About thirty minutes later Victor brought it up again. I asked if we could drop the subject because nobody was going to change anybody elses mind, and I am not a preacher. Victor smiled, made one more comment, then dropped it.

As a matter of fact, if someone would have tried to pump me full of Jesus 20 years ago, I would have either left, or attempt to knock the Bible thumper on his ass (keyword there is "attempt").

Jesus is my friend. Jesus is not Victor's friend. That's fine. When I asked Victor to leave Jesus alone, he did. Good all the way around.

Hey, maybe its better that Victor and the atheists (sounds like a Madison rock band) don't believe. That just gives me Jesus more time to work on me.

Victor. I hope you and Jesus find each other. But if you don't, I'll still smoke a cigar with you. Just don't be to rough on my friend in my presence. 🙂

Endith the sermon
(The above is Copyrighted by Echo4Alpha 2006, all rights reserved).

Jesus is a friend of mine

8,
Sorry pal but according to all the preachers and the good book itself(As I have interpreted them and it) if you have not taken Jesus Christ to be your own personal Lord and Savior(Born Again)you aint got the keys to the kingdom. According to most theologians it will not natter how good a friend Jesus is if you have not taken that step of being born again your friendship will be for nada.