dstieger
8 years ago

Or we could just let things play out and quit calling people guilty because we don't like them.

Trump deserves the benefit of the doubt he and flynn did not give to Hill Dog... oh wait... Flynn actually IS guilty

teedubbya wrote:



What was Flynn guilty of? I thought that he pleaded guilty to something that the investigators said he probably hadn't even done (lying to feds, maybe?)

If someone pleads guilty to something that they didn't do....are they guilty?
teedubbya
8 years ago
Attorneys give advice. They don't absolve you of all responsibility. Same with accountants.

Campaign finance laws are convoluted at best. Its odd cohen plead guilty to a crime that doesn't exist. You would think he (being a lawyer) and his lawyer would know as much or more than those of us in here.



teedubbya
8 years ago

What was Flynn guilty of? I thought that he pleaded guilty to something that the investigators said he probably hadn't even done (lying to feds, maybe?)

If someone pleads guilty to something that they didn't do....are they guilty?

dstieger wrote:




If you plead guilty, and it's adjudicated I'd go with you are guilty. We can get cutesie but in the end its pretty much guilty as charged. In this case I think he is a felon.

pleading guilty actually being not guilty sounds orwellian.
DrafterX
8 years ago
When does attorney/client privilege end..?? Did he have to tell them anything..?? 😕
dstieger
8 years ago
I guess my obtuse point was that the Flynn thing is...complicated

He hasn't been sentenced, afaik -- the fibbies said he probably wasn't actually lying to them....so...it looks like he was offered some sort of deal whereby we never learn what they had on him....maybe in order to see what dirt he has on someone else...weird...and I don't know if anyone outside of Flynn, FBI'ers and maybe Mueller know what's really going on
teedubbya
8 years ago

When does attorney/client privilege end..?? Did he have to tell them anything..?? 😕

DrafterX wrote:




Not sure what that has to do with anything we've discussed in here but I can't answer that for you.
bgz
  • bgz
  • Herf-A-Holic
8 years ago
I would argue there's certainly a level of conflict of interest here seeing how the Cohen is using a known leftist as an attorney which was likely pushing for a plea with a leftist agenda.

Just because the attorney plead guilty to a "campaign finance" charge, doesn't mean it actually happened. It means the two attorneys negotiating the deal got together and agreed to the charges (whether or not they actually happened) and the client of the defense attorney signed it.

X plead guilty to Y does not imply X actually did Y, therefore you can't implicate Z based on X doing Y.

teedubbya
8 years ago

I guess my obtuse point was that the Flynn thing is...complicated

He hasn't been sentenced, afaik -- the fibbies said he probably wasn't actually lying to them....so...it looks like he was offered some sort of deal whereby we never learn what they had on him....maybe in order to see what dirt he has on someone else...weird...and I don't know if anyone outside of Flynn, FBI'ers and maybe Mueller know what's really going on

dstieger wrote:




He hasn't been sentenced because his cooperation will come in to play, but he has been adjudicated as guilty. he is guilty in the eyes of the law where as Trump and Hill dog are not at this point.

And yes his case is complicated. Apparently he and his representation agreed enough to his guilt to plead as such. Anything else is gyrations.
DrafterX
8 years ago
Was thinking about the Cohen thread I guess.. 😟
teedubbya
8 years ago

I would argue there's certainly a level of conflict of interest here seeing how the Cohen is using a known leftist as an attorney which was likely pushing for a plea with a leftist agenda.

Just because the attorney plead guilty to a "campaign finance" charge, doesn't mean it actually happened. It means the two attorneys negotiating the deal got together and agreed to the charges (whether or not they actually happened) and the client of the defense attorney signed it.

X plead guilty to Y does not imply X actually did Y, therefore you can't implicate Z based on X doing Y.

bgz wrote:




You can argue COI but my guess is you will lose. I think its a weak argument based on wishes and dreams rather than law.

What it means is cohen is guilty. It does not mean Trump is yet. That was actually my point. Hillary is not guilty as of yet either.
teedubbya
8 years ago

Was thinking about the Cohen thread I guess.. 😟

DrafterX wrote:




I think the attny client privilege was addressed pretty clearly by the court appointed firewall that went through everything before letting the prosecution see it. Anything short of that sets up a nice appeal. My guess is the screaming of that is political rather than legal.

my opinion of course (they all stink and such)
DrafterX
8 years ago
I was just curious.. what's done is done.. 😟
teedubbya
8 years ago
He's a scum bag anyway you look at it. Interesting to me such a fine upstanding man as T would surround himself with folks like him. He was prolly just being nice and stuff.
RMAN4443
8 years ago

A little careless? The way my uncle Bob was a little careless, bumped in to a 16yo and got her pregnant?

HuckFinn wrote:


That's not careless, that's known as pedophilia, or statutory rape at the least...[-(
RMAN4443
8 years ago

Do they normally grant immunity to innocent peoples..?? :-k

DrafterX wrote:


Do innocent people even need immunity???:-k
bgz
  • bgz
  • Herf-A-Holic
8 years ago

If you plead guilty, and it's adjudicated I'd go with you are guilty. We can get cutesie but in the end its pretty much guilty as charged. In this case I think he is a felon.

pleading guilty actually being not guilty sounds orwellian.

teedubbya wrote:




That's not always true. There's a lot of innocent people in prison, on probation, or even just as simple as having had to pay a fine because prosecutors scared them into making a plea deal.

Just because someone made a plea deal does not mean they actually did what ever it is they agreed to say they did.

It means just that, they agreed to say they are guilty so that they don't have to face the possibility of a far heftier penalty.

Prosecutors will scare people into plea deals to go after bigger fish... are you naive enough to think people won't make up stories to throw whoever they're after under the bus if it means saving their own ass?

And bringing up Orwell, his vision is no where near what it actually is... it's worse than anything he ever thought up.

So no, pleading guilty does not imply actual guilt.


One time when I was younger, a cop gave me a ticket for an accident I wasn't even in. The judge said are you sure you don't want to fight this, you'll most likely win...

I was like, nah, I don't want to mess with it. He gave me a $50 dollar fine and sent me on my way (prosecutor didn't look happy about that).

I plead guilty, I didn't do sh1t. It happens.
delta1
8 years ago
I dunno....Trump does not seem to be the type to plead guilty to anything anytime...let alone for convenience, expediency or whatever other rationale...

he still thinks the Central Park Five should be dead, that Obama was born in Nigeria, there were fine people on both sides and there was no collusion...
delta1
8 years ago

If Trump is guilty of somethin impeach him... Or just tell him he was a little careless... Either way.. 😟

DrafterX wrote:



I think the House has already decided to take option B...
bgz
  • bgz
  • Herf-A-Holic
8 years ago

I dunno....Trump does not seem to be the type to plead guilty to anything anytime...let alone for convenience, expediency or whatever other rationale...

delta1 wrote:



I wasn't talking about Trump:/
HuckFinn
8 years ago

I dunno....Trump does not seem to be the type to plead guilty to anything anytime...let alone for convenience, expediency or whatever other rationale...

he still thinks the Central Park Five should be dead, that Obama was born in Nigeria, there were fine people on both sides and there was no collusion...

delta1 wrote:


Don't entirely agree. He orchestrated the collusion. Of course he knows.
After repeating his mantra 'no collusion' for close to 2 years, his supporters believe it.
But he knows exactly what took place.
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