teedubbya
7 years ago

Stirring up crisis’ or simply not choosing to ignore them? Pretty much every “crisis” he’s addressed began on someone else’s watch.

What flavor is the Kool-Ade?

Abrignac wrote:



Sounds like the flavor is orange. Wow.
Speyside
7 years ago
Tang boys government cheese is orange, just saying.
dstieger
7 years ago

I've always thought that any NK action would be on orders from China, so was never overly concerned...other than the same concern I have that nukes are owned by any country.
.

frankj1 wrote:


Pretty much where my thought were....and are again recently. I'm really surprised that nobody is talking or even speculating on the role China is playing in this drawn out dance. We know full well NK isn't ever going to denuclearize. I suspect cozying up has more to do with tweaking Xi than anything related to nuclear weapons.
DrafterX
7 years ago
Was everybody this paranoid when Reagan went to Russia to teach Gorby how to dance..?? 😕
frankj1
7 years ago
I'm kinda unparanoid.
and Gorby let it be known that it was time to dismantle the USSR
teedubbya
7 years ago
I heard bammy bowed to an ally once.
frankj1
7 years ago

I heard bammy bowed to an ally once.

teedubbya wrote:


unforgivable act of respect.
pacman357
7 years ago
Unfortunately, South Korea allowed him back in.

#23 I don't think Trump was pandering to nor trying to impress Xi. Trump is like a Russian nesting doll. Inside is himself. Next is some of his kids. The third biggest is the rest of his kids, trusted and respected friends, etc. That third set is fluid. By the time you get to the largest doll outside, there is a compelling case to be made that he's a complete psychopath. He trashes someone, then is stunned when they don't remain loyal. He slaps a country with YUGE tariffs, then expects to still be pals with that country's leader. He had to be talked out of applying the steel and aluminum tariffs on Australia, even though the Aussies provide single digit percentages of those imported metals, and has been probably about our most loyal ally (one could argue the UK takes that title), AND Australia is strategically located in a place where we could use space to spy, launch, etc.

This is really about Trump wanting a Nobel Peace Prize. He picked a fight with Un coming in the door, calling him Rocket Man, sending him an Elton John CD, repeatedly publicly threatening to wipe NK off the map, even claiming he had a bigger nuclear button, and really provoking NK to up the ante on missile testing, and now wants to look like our savior. He wants a Nobel Peace Prize so badly that his administration convinced Japan's prime minister Abe to nominate him for one. Really. At this point, it's like an arsonist looking to collect the reward after burning down the house. Trump is obsessed with Obama, and Obama got his NPP (really, without doing much other than getting elected and NOT being Bush 43) and Trump measures himself by some other men, Obama being chief among them.

#24 Dear Lord, I don't recall that, and I don't even want to look that up to see if it's true. Somehow seeing that would feel like walking in on someone's grandparents in flagrante delicto. No. Just....no.
delta1
7 years ago
I see you also drank the Kool Ade that Abrignac said I drank...remember what flavor it was? If I recall correctly, it's nickname was "truth serum"...
izonfire
7 years ago

unforgivable act of respect.

frankj1 wrote:



No problem with that time.

Just not happy with how he bowed to Wall Street after they fucqued us all in the azz back in 2008.
Having a tough time forgetting that one...
frankj1
7 years ago

No problem with that time.

Just not happy with how he bowed to Wall Street after they fucqued us all in the azz back in 2008.
Having a tough time forgetting that one...

izonfire wrote:


coulda sworn he simply followed the plan laid out by President Cheney.

this may be weird but I'm guessing that despite hating (?) Warren, you may be with her as it relates to Wall Street and related banking stuff...cuz no one else does chit about them.
izonfire
7 years ago

coulda sworn he simply followed the plan laid out by President Cheney.

this may be weird but I'm guessing that despite hating (?) Warren, you may be with her as it relates to Wall Street and related banking stuff...cuz no one else does chit about them.

frankj1 wrote:




Obama was in a position to hold Wall Street accountable.
He could have placed conditions on the bail out.
It was the moment of truth for a true leader.
We bail you out, you provide financial relief to the public.
He was in the position to hold their feet to the fire.
Instead, nothing. WEAK.

And no meaningful regulation since???
Not if it will happen again, just when.
____

Lizzie. If she's the only one talking about it, I will listen.
That's assuming she would actually do something.
Pocahontas wouldn't speak with forked tongue. Never. And How.

Besides, I could never hate Lizzie Warren.
Delta wants to toss her salad.

But do I hate Lizzie Borden.
Just axe her...
pacman357
7 years ago

I see you also drank the Kool Ade that Abrignac said I drank...remember what flavor it was? If I recall correctly, it's nickname was "truth serum"...

delta1 wrote:


Effing Bill shot me with a dart of the stuff. He called it The Undisputed Truth.
pacman357
7 years ago

Obama was in a position to hold Wall Street accountable.
He could have placed conditions on the bail out.
It was the moment of truth for a true leader.
We bail you out, you provide financial relief to the public.
He was in the position to hold their feet to the fire.
Instead, nothing. WEAK.

And no meaningful regulation since???
Not if it will happen again, just when.

izonfire wrote:


Dude, for real? I'm guessing you watch Fox "news".

This is an extremely complex subject, and I'm only going to be able to scratch the surface here, but a little research shows those statements to be utter excrement. I don't mean this to be personal, as I think anyone who likes "Tropic Thunder" has a good core, but your intel is bad. I'm going to cut and paste from Wikipedia here mostly for shorthand. You can confirm or refute this summary with more extensive research, but this is a decent thumbnail of SOME of what happened under Obama's watch.

Before I go there, please keep in mind that it wasn't like Obama got elected and then the economy went to cr@p. The recession was foreseen by many experts in advance, and by September, Obama's best ally in the election was the mess Bush 43 was leaving him. It's as if you came upon a train wreck, learned that the shift change happened two minutes before the wreck, and wanted to blame the relief engineer who was just coming on shift. Keeping in mind the steaming heap that Bush left, let's dig in a little bit:

...The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (commonly referred to as Dodd–Frank) is a United States federal law that was enacted on July 21, 2010. The law overhauled financial regulation in the aftermath of the financial crisis of 2007–2008, and it made changes affecting all federal financial regulatory agencies and almost every part of the nation's financial services industry.

Dodd-Frank reorganized the financial regulatory system, eliminating the Office of Thrift Supervision, assigning new responsibilities to existing agencies like the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and creating new agencies like the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB). The CFPB was charged with protecting consumers against abuses related to credit cards, mortgages, and other financial products. The act also created the Financial Stability Oversight Council and the Office of Financial Research to identify threats to the financial stability of the United States, and gave the Federal Reserve new powers to regulate systemically important institutions. To handle the liquidation of large companies, the act created the Orderly Liquidation Authority. One provision, the Volcker Rule, restricts banks from making certain kinds of speculative investments. The act also repealed the exemption from regulation for security-based swaps, requiring credit-default swaps and other transactions to be cleared through either exchanges or clearinghouses. Other provisions affect issues such as corporate governance, 1256 Contracts, and credit rating agencies....

The amount of financial regulation was left wanting in some areas, IMHO, and possibly a bit heavy-handed in others. You can also make compelling arguments both for and against the bailouts, especially since it wasn't just banks, which the FDIC would have presumably had to bail out if they failed. However, given the depth and breadth of the recession, and the relative brevity of the time it took to recover, I think Obama did a pretty damned good job. Other than getting the foot in the door with the ACA, as parts have been killed off by Trump, but much of the country has begun to see affordable health care as a right (the main thing I had personally been hoping for from the ACA, especially as someone who has battled chronic illnesses), I don't think Obama's admin was all that impressive. At least not until Captain Dumpster Fire took over. What Obama did NOT do now pales by comparison.

So, what has Trump (and for 2 years a Republican legislature, further enabled once the effing Dems took over the House) done with those reforms? Wiped out as much as possible. Quoting from CNBC here, and yes, you can research the veracity of this as well,

...It raises the threshold to $250 billion from $50 billion under which banks are deemed too important to the financial system to fail. Those institutions also would not have to undergo stress tests or submit so-called living wills, both safety valves designed to plan for financial disaster. It eases mortgage loan data reporting requirements for the overwhelming majority of banks....

More? Tax breaks for the wealthy and for corporations, with negligible tangible benefits to the 99%, and now the corporations are afraid to hire, build infrastructure, amass inventory to a reasonably comfortable degree, etc., all because the guy who thinks Chaos = Genius keeps farking up trade. Did anyone even notice when India lost preferred trade status with the U.S. a couple weeks back? Didn't think so.

I could go on here, but there is a 32767 character limit here, and I don't want to multipart this. Trump has done everything he can to undo anything Obama did, and I suspect it is not only to make conservatives and businesses happy, including his own businesses which he still holds and those of his family and friends, but I think he is fixated with wiping out as much of Obama as he can. It started with the birther garbage and probably included burning all of the furniture the Obamas used and replacing it with new stuff. Probably all gold-plated.

Trump failing to pass "meaningful regulation" would actually have been an improvement over what he HAS done, which is drag us backwards. This is, after all, a guy who loves coal and thinks windmills kill birds and give off noise that causes cancer. Calling Trump a moron is an insult to morons. Sorry. Just couldn't let that sit unanswered.
dstieger
7 years ago



#23 I don't think Trump was pandering to nor trying to impress Xi. Trump is like a st....

pacman357 wrote:


Pandering may be an antonym of tweaking...at least the way I meant it.

My suggestion was not that Trump is trying to please Xi, but that perhaps by getting chummy with NK, it would pizz off the Chinese just enough to provoke a reaction that could be leveraged in discussions unrelated to NK. Buffoonish as he is, I think it unwise to ignore the idea that a large part of Trump's negotiating strategy has to do with provoking and triggering emotional reactions. NK has long been considered to be a Chinese puppet. Trump exchanging love letters with Kim probably isn't about NK so much as trying to influence Xi...and maybe also think he could be considered for a Peace Prize while he's at it
frankj1
7 years ago

Dude, for real? I'm guessing you watch Fox "news".

This is an extremely complex subject, and I'm only going to be able to scratch the surface here, but a little research shows those statements to be utter excrement. I don't mean this to be personal, as I think anyone who likes "Tropic Thunder" has a good core, but your intel is bad. I'm going to cut and paste from Wikipedia here mostly for shorthand. You can confirm or refute this summary with more extensive research, but this is a decent thumbnail of SOME of what happened under Obama's watch.

Before I go there, please keep in mind that it wasn't like Obama got elected and then the economy went to cr@p. The recession was foreseen by many experts in advance, and by September, Obama's best ally in the election was the mess Bush 43 was leaving him. It's as if you came upon a train wreck, learned that the shift change happened two minutes before the wreck, and wanted to blame the relief engineer who was just coming on shift. Keeping in mind the steaming heap that Bush left, let's dig in a little bit:

...The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (commonly referred to as Dodd–Frank) is a United States federal law that was enacted on July 21, 2010. The law overhauled financial regulation in the aftermath of the financial crisis of 2007–2008, and it made changes affecting all federal financial regulatory agencies and almost every part of the nation's financial services industry.

Dodd-Frank reorganized the financial regulatory system, eliminating the Office of Thrift Supervision, assigning new responsibilities to existing agencies like the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and creating new agencies like the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB). The CFPB was charged with protecting consumers against abuses related to credit cards, mortgages, and other financial products. The act also created the Financial Stability Oversight Council and the Office of Financial Research to identify threats to the financial stability of the United States, and gave the Federal Reserve new powers to regulate systemically important institutions. To handle the liquidation of large companies, the act created the Orderly Liquidation Authority. One provision, the Volcker Rule, restricts banks from making certain kinds of speculative investments. The act also repealed the exemption from regulation for security-based swaps, requiring credit-default swaps and other transactions to be cleared through either exchanges or clearinghouses. Other provisions affect issues such as corporate governance, 1256 Contracts, and credit rating agencies....

The amount of financial regulation was left wanting in some areas, IMHO, and possibly a bit heavy-handed in others. You can also make compelling arguments both for and against the bailouts, especially since it wasn't just banks, which the FDIC would have presumably had to bail out if they failed. However, given the depth and breadth of the recession, and the relative brevity of the time it took to recover, I think Obama did a pretty damned good job. Other than getting the foot in the door with the ACA, as parts have been killed off by Trump, but much of the country has begun to see affordable health care as a right (the main thing I had personally been hoping for from the ACA, especially as someone who has battled chronic illnesses), I don't think Obama's admin was all that impressive. At least not until Captain Dumpster Fire took over. What Obama did NOT do now pales by comparison.

So, what has Trump (and for 2 years a Republican legislature, further enabled once the effing Dems took over the House) done with those reforms? Wiped out as much as possible. Quoting from CNBC here, and yes, you can research the veracity of this as well,

...It raises the threshold to $250 billion from $50 billion under which banks are deemed too important to the financial system to fail. Those institutions also would not have to undergo stress tests or submit so-called living wills, both safety valves designed to plan for financial disaster. It eases mortgage loan data reporting requirements for the overwhelming majority of banks....

More? Tax breaks for the wealthy and for corporations, with negligible tangible benefits to the 99%, and now the corporations are afraid to hire, build infrastructure, amass inventory to a reasonably comfortable degree, etc., all because the guy who thinks Chaos = Genius keeps farking up trade. Did anyone even notice when India lost preferred trade status with the U.S. a couple weeks back? Didn't think so.

I could go on here, but there is a 32767 character limit here, and I don't want to multipart this. Trump has done everything he can to undo anything Obama did, and I suspect it is not only to make conservatives and businesses happy, including his own businesses which he still holds and those of his family and friends, but I think he is fixated with wiping out as much of Obama as he can. It started with the birther garbage and probably included burning all of the furniture the Obamas used and replacing it with new stuff. Probably all gold-plated.

Trump failing to pass "meaningful regulation" would actually have been an improvement over what he HAS done, which is drag us backwards. This is, after all, a guy who loves coal and thinks windmills kill birds and give off noise that causes cancer. Calling Trump a moron is an insult to morons. Sorry. Just couldn't let that sit unanswered.

pacman357 wrote:



glad I read this reply before I posted "nuh uh".
dstieger
7 years ago
At least 'nuh uh' would have been read by someone other than you, Frank....

sorry, Pac....WTLDR
you're gonna burn yourself out before you get settled back in
delta1
7 years ago

Obama was in a position to hold Wall Street accountable.
He could have placed conditions on the bail out.
It was the moment of truth for a true leader.
We bail you out, you provide financial relief to the public.
He was in the position to hold their feet to the fire.
Instead, nothing. WEAK.

And no meaningful regulation since???
Not if it will happen again, just when.
____

Lizzie. If she's the only one talking about it, I will listen.
That's assuming she would actually do something.
Pocahontas wouldn't speak with forked tongue. Never. And How.

Besides, I could never hate Lizzie Warren.
Delta wants to toss her salad.

But do I hate Lizzie Borden.
Just axe her...

izonfire wrote:



Dodd - Frank...Consumer Protection Bureau...

both of which the GOP vehemently opposed and dismantled once Trump got elected...the GOP House practically threw themselves at the feet of Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan, when he appeared before Congress to lay out his plans for recovery and how to prevent future catastrophes...

contrast that with how the Dems grilled him when he showed up in the House a few months ago...
izonfire
7 years ago

Dude, for real? I'm guessing you watch Fox "news".

pacman357 wrote:



Bad guess dude.

Most of my information on this subject was gleaned from Frontline - PBS. One of the few sources of in depth information that I find to be reliable. With a minimum of bias. Which would tend to be more liberal, if it exists.

This is an extremely complex subject, and I'm only going to be able to scratch the surface here, but a little research shows those statements to be utter excrement. I don't mean this to be personal,

pacman357 wrote:



That's the most retarded thing that you could possibly say. No offense.

By insulting someone right off the bat, you put them immediately in a defensive position. The argument is instantly personal, and the focus turns to volleying insults, rather than a rational discussion. Immediate division.

Rather, you want the other person to consider your position through sharing reliable information and thoughtful analysis. And show them a tad of respect. They will be much more willing to consider your side of the argument.

And now that I mentioned that,
I imagine there are other things you could say which would be more retarded.
See? You've already got me questioning my own statements...

as I think anyone who likes "Tropic Thunder" has a good core, but your intel is bad.

pacman357 wrote:



Much better here. I think I will continue reading...

I'm going to cut and paste from Wikipedia here mostly for shorthand.

pacman357 wrote:



I haven't pasted the rest of it just due to space. But I am not discounting any of it.

By no means am I blaming Obama for the financial crisis. He got a raw deal. He was left with dealing with it. And by no means am I implying that this administration has done anything to improve the situation.

But he was in a position to take Wall Street to task. To rescue them conditionally. He had the power to do that. To give relief to the people of this country who suffered due to the irresponsible, corrupt actions of the banks.

He did not do that. He let them off with a slap on the wrist.
That is my sole point. Show me how I am wrong.
frankj1
7 years ago
Warren is the only one...
Users browsing this topic