So these air pillows only function one-way as far as vapor goes. I made a 50 gram pack with nothing but sodium chloride and it only gained 0.02 grams while in a ziplock with a cup of water (it was 90% humidity) after 24 hours. That is within the margin of error the AWS-100 has.

For now, I am going to use them as a one-way system since they still function as a barrier to the salts. I might try Tyvek at a later date since I can pick up envelopes made of that material at the post office but for the time being I am not sure where to get the Hytrel stuff Boveda uses.

Tittums wrote:

I'm curious how it could be 1-way only. Especially since it's designed to hold air inside.
did you try two with varying volumes of water and air?

If you really truly believe it's a 1-way only system, maybe turn one inside out and test it?

victor809 wrote:

Well, the idea is to create boveda for cheaper than what they cost. If it's only one-way (inside or out) it's not boveda. For my needs to I don't need two-way if it's only going to be a set RH. I can just air out my humidor for incoming cigars that are over humidified. I have been having to do that anyway because even some 5 packs I bought caused my humidity to jump.

Tittums wrote:

I'm asking more for curiosity sake, to prove the theory.
If you turn it inside out and still cannot get the salt to absorb moisture, then we need to re-think how the experiment is set up.

victor809 wrote:

Water (Reverse Osmosis) 7732-18-5 50 to 67
Sodium chloride 7647-14-5 8 to 13
Ammonium Chloride 12125-02-9 13 to 33
Glycerin 56-81-5 10 to 29
Xanthan gum 11138-66-2 0.5 to 1.0
Citric acid 77-92-9 0.01 to 0.5

I just put an inflated pillow in a glass of water and am using the 100G weight that came with my scale to calibrate it to force it partially underwater. I can't test reversing it at the moment as my hygrometers are in use testing different salt mixes.

Since it is been challenging me the most I am currently going back to using Ammonium Chloride since it is 80% RH but is used in 65% and 69% Bovedas and I can't seem to get it below 72%. Currently playing around with the 65% ingredients:

Tittums wrote:

After you solve that, I have another one for you, titts.

Scientifically 'prove' how storage temperature is related to relative humidity -- not just some meterology class regurgitation, but how the temp/humidity/RH relationship is manifested in rolled tobacco leaves, also. Every time someone convinced me they were on the right track, a better argument deflated them.

dstieger wrote:

After you solve that, I have another one for you, titts.

Scientifically 'prove' how storage temperature is related to relative humidity -- not just some meterology class regurgitation, but how the temp/humidity/RH relationship is manifested in rolled tobacco leaves, also. Every time someone convinced me they were on the right track, a better argument deflated them.

dstieger wrote:

After you solve that, I have another one for you, titts.

Scientifically 'prove' how storage temperature is related to relative humidity -- not just some meterology class regurgitation, but how the temp/humidity/RH relationship is manifested in rolled tobacco leaves, also. Every time someone convinced me they were on the right track, a better argument deflated them.

dstieger wrote:

So, I guess the practical question is something like this:

If I like my cigars that come out of my living room humidor that has a hygrometer reading 63%RH and 69 degrees.....

should I keep the humidor in my garage which is right around 48 degrees currently, at 63%, also?

dstieger wrote:

So, I guess the practical question is something like this:

If I like my cigars that come out of my living room humidor that has a hygrometer reading 63%RH and 69 degrees.....

should I keep the humidor in my garage which is right around 48 degrees currently, at 63%, also?

dstieger wrote:

No.

There's a chart called a psychrometric chart which is a pain in the ass but I've had to use in the past. It shows you the relationship between temperature and relative humidity.
If you follow a psychrometric chart to see the "grains of water" (this is a measure of the amount of water) in the air at 48F and 63%rh, you will find that is much fewer grains than an equivalent 63%RH at 69F.

We can assume that the grains of water in the air will correlate directly with how much is available to be absorbed by the tobacco leaves

victor809 wrote:

Much better than my explanation, but this is where you show you are more educated on this than myself. "Grains of water" is not a term I am familiar with so I am guessing this is some scientific term to reference a fraction of a gram when refering to moisture or vaporized liquids.

Tittums wrote:

honestly don't know where "grains" came from. I had never heard the term until I had to work on automation systems for building management systems in the pharma industry. These control the air handling units which have to remove (or add) moisture to the air for the manufacturing suites. People would get very obsessed about exactly how many grains of moisture were in the air before it was heated to the temperature of the manufacturing suite.

When I was in science I had never used the term "grains"... seems to be limited to people who care about climate control. Science uses grams (and the variations on that)

victor809 wrote:

Best guess ... in equilibrium you may have a little bit of ammonia being formed.

With heat NH4Cl will form a bit of this:
NH4Cl → NH3 + HCl

Additionally, we also know
NH4Cl + NaOH → NH3 + NaCl + H2O

So, if we assume that at equilibrium some percentage of both sides of these reactions will be represented, then it is likely some of the NH3 formed in the second reaction is reacting with the NaCl and H2O already present to re-form NH4Cl and also create NaOH.

Throw in the additional presence of MgCl2... which may be forming an equilibrium with the NaOH as well... which will create Mg(OH)2 as well.

Sh1t.... I'm way too far removed from my undergrad chemistry to start mapping this all out. Needless to say, you may be forming some compounds you aren't expecting here....

victor809 wrote:

It has low hygroscopicity, but it can also absorb moisture and agglomerate in wet and rainy weather. Powdered food grade Ammonium Chloride is very easy to absorb moisture, especially wet Ammonium; the moisture absorption point is generally around 76%