Good discussion of the big pocture.

Energy is the key, too many fans of EVs fail to consider the big picture. The same is true for hydrogen-powered vehicles.

EV are NOT zero emissions, they never were and will never be zero emissions until we can change the laws of physics.

EVs should be renamed, external combustion vehicles.

Gene363 wrote:

When electric motors can move giant ships, airplanes, trains, and tractor trailers... we could start to see a blip. But I read that all the crap we're doing now will "supposedly" only drop the temp in 30 years by 1/100th of a degree.

And while we still need to transport people and goods long distances... and have reliable power for these EV's... the carbon energy infrastructure must remain in place.

Lets not talk about what farming for the lithium does to the planet.

MACS wrote:

EV's are zero emission if the power plant is - Nuclear, solar, wind, tidal, geo, etc.
They are one step in a big picture problem.

However, even when they are powered by coal or gas burning power plants, they are far, far cleaner and more efficient.

This is why they are a good first step. Add to that the 20 cent to the dollar vs gas operating cost, plus way lower maintenance and better performance.

That is why all of the car manufactures and killing themselves to get in the game.

I have one, and if you did you would wonder why you waited.

Brewha wrote:

And you know this how? From your 6 months of owning a Telsa. EV's rank near the bottom of the list for reliability. Fact, not opinion.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/15/consumer-reports-new-technologies-make-evs-less-reliable.html 
[/h].

Your big picture is focused on your narrow vision. Maybe try to take the blinders off and see things outside of your small selected world.

20 cents on the dollar as compared to gas at the pump. Yep, got it. You've been beating this drum since since you bought your Tesla.

Yet you ignore the facts on the larger scale on everything else that is involved. I posted a couple links that might be of interest but you have a phobia of YouTube videos from outside sources that don't agree with your mindset on this topic.

Are you willing to provide or post some contrary facts (not opinion) on this topic or should we just trust your experience? You probably have been on Zoom meetings with some super important people that have information that we couldn't understand but it's out there if we wanted to look for it.

It's pretty vanilla... seems like I've heard this claim before...

BuckyB93 wrote:

The first EV semi trucks are now being delivered to Frito Lay and Amazon.
And while electricity may never be the right answer for rocket ships (in this century) electric motors are not unknown in the Navy. Even this early on.

Mining Lithium vs Gas and Oil:
Less damaging to the environment to refine lithium, iron and phosphates. and we don't burn them into the air...

Brewha wrote:

Ooh ooh. Mr Kotter!

dkeage wrote:

And you know this how? From your 6 months of owning a Telsa? EV's rank near the bottom of the list for reliability. Fact, not opinion.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/15/consumer-reports-new-technologies-make-evs-less-reliable.html .

Your big picture is focused on your narrow vision. Maybe try to take the blinders off and see things outside of your small selected world.

20 cents on the dollar as compared to gas at the pump. Yep, got it. You've been beating this drum since since you bought your Tesla.

Yet you ignore the facts on the larger scale on everything else that is involved. I posted a couple links that might be of interest but you have a phobia of YouTube videos from outside sources that don't agree with your mindset on this topic.

Are you willing to provide or post some contrary facts (not opinion) on this topic or should we just trust your experience? You probably have been on Zoom meetings with some super important people that have information that we couldn't understand but it's out there if we wanted to look for it.

It's pretty vanilla... seems like I've heard this claim before...

BuckyB93 wrote:

This is a joke. Current technology limits range to 250 miles per charge with a 90% recharge taking about an hour. Top speed is about 60 mph.

Now for the particulars. That range is on flat land which probably equates to no more than 50% of OTR miles. That range will drop by half going across hilly and mountainous terrain. At that rate a driver will be hard pressed to drive 400 miles in a single 11 hour driving shift. Most drivers can drive 700 in a diesel truck. As a result, shipping costs will double. Can we say inflation?

Abrignac wrote:

WTF Bucky - what are asking me?

My point is this is a good 10-20 year transition path. Not next Tuesday - 10-20 years.

This is not my narrow vision. World leaders, governments and corporations are moving to EV's for practical reasons.

This is a large and complicated subject. Where would you like to start?

Brewha wrote:

EV vehicles, at it stands now, do have their place. EVs are a niche market for short or medium commutes, or for daily drives where one can plug them in and recharge at the end of the day. They also have a niche for "last mile" concept where daily package and deliveries are local within a certain radius (UPS, Post office, Amazon and such). Then the delivery vehicles go back home and park themselves to recharge for the next day.

EV's will probably not, in my lifetime, be a solution to long travel or realistically used for transporting goods beyond about a couple hundred miles. Hopefully I'm wrong but the cards not in their favor.

BuckyB93 wrote:

Nobody calls it ICE. That’s ghey.

HockeyDad wrote:

So...I work in the Logistics field. Frito and Amazon are some of our larger customers.

And this is a huge win for them in terms of cost for their relentless route deliveries to your local grocery stores, cross docking and spoke distributors. You are guessing at the application of these vehicles. They are not driving potato chips coast to coast.

And amazon is using them for "last mile" deliveries - code for B2B and B2C shipping.




Now you may not believe me.
But I was putting robotic carton palletizers in the Topeka Frito Lay plant 25 years ago.
I kind of know their business.

Brewha wrote:

So, you’ve made it to Montrose?

dkeage wrote:

Clearly, some did not watch the video. They desperately want to be a tool for change, but they end up just a a tool.

Even in a fantasy world where making EVs and their batteries is totally emission free, let me know when electrical energy production has been increased to equal the energy output of refineries and you might be able to talk intelligently on the topic.

Gene363 wrote:

Nobody calls it ICE. That’s ghey.

HockeyDad wrote: