Registered Republican, Libertarian at heart. If I believed that Libertarians could ever be a viable political force, I'd change my registration. The simple fact of being Libertarian precludes us from uniting to produce any real clout. As for detailed political beliefs penst8, Robby, SteveS and Charlie said it better than I could.

robertparrott:

that's a great story, and an example that i really do like. seriously. HOWEVER, what of the student who does the exact same work as the rep's daughter, who takes the same classes, who makes the same sacrifices, who does it all 100% the same way but ends up getting lower grades because, say, her professors just get a bit annoyed at having a butch lesbian in their classrooms?

say these profs don't even understand why they don't call on her so much in classes or why they prefer to just skim her papers and throw a grade on it a little lower than that delightful sunshine-smiled alicia silverstone look-alike lass would get (she just brightens up that whole class with her pepsodent smile! *sigh*). maybe the prof isn't aware at all that he's treating our bull**** friend any differently -- even so, at the end of the semester she gets a B- while alicia snags an A+.

is that okay?

see, the problem i have with simplistic stories is that life is rarely so clear-cut. the student doesn't have to be a bull****. maybe she's fat. maybe he has bad acne. maybe everyone knows that his dad's the loudest most obnoxious drunk at the college tavern on football night. maybe she's a single mom (and maybe it's because she's a WIDOW, not a welfare-sucking 'ho -- imagine that!).

do i advocate for robbing from the rich to give to the poor? not at all. not by a longshot. but i don't think that life -- real life -- follows nice and neatly along poltical lines. i hear the bitching done by conservatives. i hear the same from liberals. on the far side of either one, i don't know what world they're living in, because it's certainly not mine.

i don't see every single mom on welfare as being a lazy money grubber. i also don't see them as victims of the cruel right wing. people are COMPLICATED. very little is pure black or white in our world.

there are welfare slugs in this country, yet. there are also people who have worked hard all their lives and have been slapped upside the head with health problems or lost jobs. both of them are standing in the welfare line on the first of the month. are they both "leeches?"

my take? i'd just like to see us all try a little -- just a little -- harder to understand people before we slap labels on them and identify them as the cause of the ruination of america. 🙂

antonio

I don't think anybody would (or could) argue any of those points antonio.

Very well stated, but shooting up the middle like that clearly explains the situation without addressing any type of solution.
The far left solve this dilema by wanting to give to everyone. Tax the rich, feed the poor, till there are no rich any more.
The Republicans are perceived as wanting to throw everybody out in the street who doesn't work 12 hour days and follow wall street.

Obviously, to right the wrongs of several generations, some people are going to get hurt. Our duty is to minimize the damage to the innocent (truly needy) and maximize the punishment to the guilty (third generation welfare leeches).

This isn't class warfare, as the liberals will decry. This is personal responsibility.
I believe in America.
I know we won't throw the helpless into the street to die.
We're better than that.
It's just too bad the left can't recgonize it.

I think it's very clear that even though there are rancorous debates over this issue or that from time to time, the VAST majority of us are very like minded, except a few who shall remain nameless because I don't want Rick to get embarrassed. There's a quote that applies, "Great minds think alike". Must be a lot of great minds here 😉

tailgator: well put, and d'accord.

nothing about this is simple, but at the same time i think we've all gotten to a point where we OVER complicate things when it doesn't need to be that way. add in a not-so-healthy dose of "us vs. them" animosity, and it's welcome to the USA year 2004.

i just wish we could all take it down a notch. we don't need to fan the flames of divisiveness -- especially not while our men and women are overseas fighting two wars (at least). i wish we could just chill a little bit, start looking more into our OWN lives and get our noses out of other peoples' lives.

am i liberal? conservative? i don't know. i claim neither, but i'm not fence sitting either. i'm very clear on my stance on just about every issue tossed into the ring.

i just believe that "charity begins at home" and so does everything else. before i go off bashing rush limbaugh, i would rather take a look at my OWN life and see if i really need to be throwing those stones. before i roll my eyes at the woman in front of me whipping out her EBT card, i need to realize that i know exactly "jack" and "squat" about her life.

it must be really nice to be so perfect that one can sit up on a high horse and look down at others who are so clearly inferior. i wouldn't know about it, though. i'm just another american wanting to live happy ever after with my wife, play with my dogs, smoke my cigars and give a brother or sister a hand when i can as we all roll on down the road.

what party does that?

Part II

Cavallo

What party does that you say??? Well the Republican party, that’s who!

Let me explain:

The liberals would say this......

You say-
“i'm just another american wanting to live happy ever after with my wife”

Oh, you think that do you? Well what about the guy who lives next door to you? Don’t you think he wants the same thing? I mean, over-look the fact that he is 150lbs over weight and he smells like some kind of septic tank gone afoul, and for the last three years, that you know of, he has been unemployed. lets NOT look at all that O.K.? Because we haven’t walked a mile in HIS shoes, have we? We don’t know what kind of pain and suffering life has brought him. So with all that in mind, what right do YOU have to live happily ever after with a wife when he has none? Don’t you think the government should raise your taxes so they can afford to develop a program for guys like this? Shouldn’t the government provide your neighbor with all the things, like a WIFE, that you have but he doesn’t?

You also say-
I just want to “play with my dogs”

Sounds simple enough, doesn’t it? Oh, but we’re forgetting about the teacher from the elementary school two blocks from your house. He has fallen in love with one of your dogs. You see, he has been “in the closet” secretly seeing your dog when you weren’t looking. Now he wants to marry your dog. I mean, what right do you have to tell him he cant marry “ole Duke” after all, they love each other, and if that’s so who are you to call it wrong??? Now “ole Duke” is gone and happily married to “Mr. Smith” the elementary gym teacher, but wait, there is a problem. “Ole Duke” is feeling a bit sick. They think it may be Parvo. Now the problem is that the local school district doesn’t cover vet bills in it’s health coverage. So Mr. Smith sues claiming he is not a pet he is a “life partner” and he wins the suit. Now your property taxes have to be raised to cover “ole Duke’s” treatment. Now you have a little less money to enjoy that life you spoke of, not to mention you no longer have your dog!

Now then, you also say you want to-
“smoke my cigars”

Now wait just a minute there buster! Don’t you know that tobacco is deadly? We can’t have your second hand smoke drifting down the street and offending the nostrils of poor old miss Jones. After all, her husband died of lung cancer, are you just that uncaring? How dare you pollute her environment with your deadly toxins. Do you think she doesn’t have the right to breathe? Do you really think she wants to go out like her late husband? As you sit there puffing away, she is at city hall petitioning the city council to outlaw all offensive and potentially dangerous odors from the good old town of “(place your town name here)” because she was so persistent about it she made the national news. Then she managed to rally together several thousands of people from all over the country to pick up her cause, the local city council had to call a special session just to hear her and vote on a resolution. Not only did all that cost you, the taxpayer, an extra $500,000, but now you can’t even fart in the wind while your mowing your yard without facing a fine and possible jail time.

Lastly, I can’t believe you also want to, and I quote, “give a brother or sister a hand when i can as we all roll on down the road.”

Well, you know we just cant have any of that. I mean who the hell are you to pick and choose who you help? You are no where near qualified to make that call buddy!! No, what we will do is to appoint a special counsel to study this issue. We just cant have local churches, individuals, and privet groups deciding who to help and who not to. I bet you would all just help people like the widow Jackson. I mean just because she feels like eating a meal once in a while is a necessity for her you all seem to think she actually needs it! But you seem to forget old “wino Bob” What about him? Who’s gunna give his $1.25 to buy his next bottle of thunderbird? You have no right, and lets face it, your just too damn stupid to figure out who “really” needs help and who doesn’t need help on your own. That’s why the state of (place your state name here) is going to raise the sales tax 2% and spend the next five years studying this whole issue in an effort to come up with a “life plan” that allows all poor people to receive the things they need to feel happy and content. How do you like that????



To be continued…………………………….

I believe when a man's down . . .
. . . kick him. If he gets up, he will be a better man for the experience. ---Brother Dave Gardner

kc: well, first off, you're talking about some extreme fringes of the left and calling it mainstream. that's the kind of thing we could ALL of us do less of. it's the same as lefty laroo coming along and categorizing the republican party in general as being a bunch of little hitlers.

even so, point taken.

i know a lot of guys who count themselves as conservative and republican. i think the world of them, and they've always been great to me, even though my views can and do differ quite a bit from theirs.

at this point, there is one major issue that i can't get past. i've seen so much queer bashing going on -- and that is not at all okay with me. first off, the examples of gay folks put out there are nowhere close to reality. my brother is gay, folks. and it really just lights my fuse when gays are referred to as being little more than freaks, disease carriers and even animal-****ers. i can't even put into words how that pisses me off.

my brother, man... he's a truck driver. cross country, long hours, hard work. i've gon on runs with him, and i can't tell you how many times he's stopped to help someone on the road -- woman with a flat tire? no problem. he pulls over and changes it for her. hitcher in the rain? hop in; we'll take you to the next truck stop anyway. accident? he's out with his first aid kit in one hand, cell in the other calling 911.

he looks a bit like burt reynolds. balding, mustache. wears flannel shirts, jeans, his old cowboy boots. smokes a nice cigar from time to time, otherwise it's marlboros on the road. he's also got a harley and rides when he can with a local motorcycle crew made up of folks from former hell's angels to bikers for jesus.
he was married once, has a daughter who he took good care of all the way into and through college. she's in law school now; he's paying for much of it.

he's a good guy. takes care of the old man who lives next door, has him over to cook out, have a beer, listen to the old guy's war stories, helps him change the bandages on his legs from an old injury at the stone quarry where he worked after the war.

you wouldn't point and stare at him in public. he doesn't fit the stereotype (and i don't know many gay folks who do, to be honest). he's invisible to those who make fun of the limp-wristed, lisping girly man stereotype. but it's a kick to his head when the jokes get told, when someone talks about shipping all the queers off to their island and nuking it.

you're talking about my brother like that. not you personally, but the big, ambiguous "you" who snicker at the jokes and think he wants some "special" rights.

all i want to do is live my life without the government sticking its nose into the most personal, private aspects of it. i want to sit in my backyard and grill a big ol' steak, wash it down with a cold one and light up a toraño 1916 cammy. thing is, that's pretty much what my brother wants, too.

and i'm sorry, but even as i agree on many points as you conservative-id'ed folks do, i can't get on board with any group who would so actively try to make my brother into some kind of sick, freakish criminal who doesn't deserve to be treated like a human being. that is the one sticking point for me. it sickens me to hear people talk like the do about "the homos" and "the queers." i have to wonder if those folks have ever KNOWN a homosexual -- known him or her well, known more than one, more than five?

i just can't see how anyone who knew my brother would want to degrade and humiliate him like that. he wants the same things i do, but because i'm in love with a woman, that's okay for me -- but he needs to be shipped off to some island and nuked out of existance?

can't get behind that. sorry.

antonio

and i gotta add this, too.

i'm 38 years old. i've worked fulltime (even during six years of college) since i was 16 years old. my dad worked in a factory; mom kept the house going. i'm the typical "it's my money, and i worked hard for it, and i should be able to spend it as i please" kind of guy. yes, i also gave regularly to charity, too, be it the annual paycheck deduction to united way, the donations to goodwill, the check to the SPCA, the weekend helping out at the local food kitchen, or even giving a tenner to the guy on the corner claiming to be a vietnam vet (which i now know he probably was not) with the "please help; need food" sign in his hands (and alcohol on his breath). even so-- i had it, what the heck. enjoy.

i worked in law enforcement and really got to see the "better" side of humanity in that job, let me tell you. got injured on the job, turned in the badge and took my skills and went to a corporate job. worked three more years doing that, was dropping off a fedex envelope in michigan and had to stand up on a wedge of packed snow/ice to get to it. slipped, sprained my ankle. no big deal.

except it didn't heal. and didn't heal. and it got worse.

now i've been out of a job for just over a year. my legs don't work right. i'm in serious pain all the time, and i take medication usually only given to people in the end stages of cancer. i have to keep my legs elevated much of the time. all day and night i go back and forth from my ergonomic den chair to my orthopedic bed. sometimes i get 2-3 hours of uninterrupted sleep. mostly i just catch a few minutes here and there when the medicine knocks me out no matter what i'm doing. mid-sentence on here, then zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

what i can do is very limited now. my wife has taken over so many things that i used to love to do, and god bless her for all she does to keep us going. we live on her school teacher's salary now. i tried working at home. when i left the office in my last job, they tried to keep me on board and let me work from home. i just couldn't do it. i couldn't keep up with the work, and my health situation is so maddeningly unreliable. you can't do a good job when 3/4 of the time you're on the clock, you're either laying down trying to get the leg swelling down or half blitzed on the only medication that makes life remotely bearable.

i could go on and on about all that. the point is that just a little over a year ago i was a lot different than i am today. i used to chuckle at the welfare jokes, used to get a little disgusted when someone at the grocery store whipped out the food stamp card. i used to think, "get a JOB!"

well, now my wife gets the sour looks at the grocery store when she whips out the food stamp card. she gets to bear that shame because her husband can't make it around the grocery store (no, not even with the little handi-carts, from which you can reach very damn little on the shelves).

i'm no longer the breadwinner for my family. i'm no longer their provider. i can't tell you how low that makes me feel. even without the jokes about leeches like me, it makes a man feel mighty low just knowing that he's not doing what he used to do, what he loved to do, in taking care of his family.

yes, i've applied for disability. don't worry, says the doc, the anesthesiologist, the neurologist, the orthopedist -- there's no way they'll turn you down! well, no one told me that some obscenely high percentage of people who apply are automatically denied, no matter what their condition. fine. so i'm appealing now, this time with a social security lawyer (i've heard this is the way to procede). so maybe a year or two from now i'll feel a bit better when i'm bringing in my $805/month -- that will almost pay for my monthly medical expenses.

i'm not writing this as some kind of "pity me" thing. i'm putting this out there as another example of why i don't feel like i fit into the republican party, why i don't fit in with the conservative way of thinking. from what i've heard so far, i'm just another leech on the system, taking your hard-earned money out of your pockets because i'm apparently just too lazy to get a job.

after all, that's what i thought a year ago about anyone whipping out the food stamp card. why shouldn't others think that about me (or my wife rather) now?

i'm red faced embarrassed to write this, and i suppose there will be some of you who stop sending emails after i post this. but i want to know, i REALLY want to know -- where does someone like me even begin to fit in with conservatives or with the repub party? rush limbaugh hates my kind, i'm sure. then again, it's guys like limbaugh who make it just that more difficult for guys like me to get the pain medication that we need in order to have any kind of life at all.

anyway, there it is.

antonio

Sheesh! You guys must be some great typists!

heh. well, i've got software that helps (when it actually works)!

anyway, i was just going to say -- i'm going to read on as much as i can, but that's my last long post probably for a good while. i've gotta take care of some worsening health issues and won't be posting much until things start to improve.

email is: BBELTRISI (all caps) at ec dot rr dot com if anyone wants to communicate that way -- just give me awhile to reply if you do write.

that's what i hate about this, T -- i can feel almost normal for a day or a few days, and then blammo.

anyway, i'll get on to read when i can and post when i'm on the upswing again.

/threadjack 🙂

god bless,

antonio