I reviewed copies of each of these bills from the official web sites of the House and the Senate. Both have very similar (maybe identical) definitions. I still read these to apply only to cigarettes and smokeless tobacco. The first definition only includes 'tobacco rolls' rolled in paper. The second does include cigarettes rolled in tobacco (a major change from the original Jenkins Act), but has the wording 'sold as a cigarette.' Can somebody else look at this and tell me where Sen. Hatch's amendment which supposedly roped in cigars is? All I see is cigarettes...

All I see is ... a 'Micellaneous' board topic ... :^)

Slimbo... couldn't cigar lesislation possibly pertain to the Cigars and Related Board?? It is !cigar! lesgislation after all.

With that logic ... any topic even 'slightly' cigar related could be posted on 'Cigars & Related' ...

... it just seems to me this is more of a 'political' topic for the 'Miscellaneous' board, but what do I know ... LOL!

Last time I was slapped for posting in the wrong forum area, someone thought my Misc posting s/b in the C&R! I'll never learn....

http://www.cigarbid.com/auction/forum/forum.cfm?action=list&forumID=1&messageDisplay=0000000018637#178626 

There are only 2 postings on the subject I can find in Misc.

Gotta go with grond on this one.

Paraphrased from BeatDragon...

What, d did you run over Slim's cat or something?

Nice detective work.

I thought Slim's "Look what CA has to offer... post was borderline, but what do I know. = )

To err is human.

O.K., let's turn this threadjack off. I want answers!

http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/3305481 

I cut the following directly from the Senate site for S1177, the "Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by Senate"

`(2) The term `cigarette' means--

`(A) any roll of tobacco wrapped in paper or in any substance not containing tobacco which is to be heated or burned;

`(B) any roll of tobacco wrapped in any substance containing tobacco that, because of its appearance, the type of tobacco used in the filler, or its packaging or labeling, is likely to be offered to, or purchased by, consumers as a cigarette described in subparagraph (A);

`(C) any roll of tobacco wrapped in any substance that because of its appearance, the type of tobacco used in the filler, or its packaging or labeling, is likely to be offered to, or purchased by, consumers as a cigarette; or

`(D) loose rolling tobacco that, because of its appearance, type, packaging, or labeling, is likely to be offered to, or purchased by, consumers as tobacco for making cigarettes"

The definition goes on to define smokeless tobacco. The balance of the bill goes on to tell how the gov't will go about collecting taxes on cigarettes and smokeless tobacco. I read the cigarette definition and I still think cigars are not covered.

drnos,
Here's the problem as found in:
SEC. 3. TREATMENT OF CIGARETTES AND SMOKELESS TOBACCO AS NONMAILABLE MATTER.
Section 1716 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) by redesignating subsections (j) and (k) as subsections (k) and (l), respectively; and

(2) by inserting after subsection (i) the following new subsection (j):

`(j)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the transmission in the mails of any tobacco product, including cigarettes (as that term is defined in section 1(2) of the Act of October 19, 1949 (15 U.S.C. 375; commonly referred to as the `Jenkins Act')) and smokeless tobacco (as that term is defined in section 1(3) of that Act), is prohibited, and TOBACCO PRODUCTS are nonmailable and shall not be deposited in or carried through the mails.

My apologies... I hit Post Message too early.

As you can see from the above posted Section III, the bill also has a prohibition against sending "Tobacco Products" through the mail. At least that is what I have found in my investigation.

Cheers,

grond

As you can see from the above posted Section III, the bill also has a prohibition against sending "Tobacco Products" through the mail. At least that is what I have found in my investigation."

that above is what I care to have rubbed out.. WHY? because then the forums.. all forums will become a ghost town... it is the caring and sharing we all have together on these Forums the pass's the Bombs.. the BD clubs all will go to the wayside... EF that!!!!! Pardon me being straight forward... but it is that,that will cause US to not be US no longer.. I don't know about the rest of ya'll but this place and many others has kept me on the level... I went through a 19 yr marrage once to end up "SPLAT" I dont need you anymore... my cigars was something that kept my mind occupied off the other BS... or burying my head and feelings in a Bottle...


and the people I've met with this HOBBY.. are some great folks.. no matter what are differences are!!!!!

and OUR ELECTED Officials want to p*** down our backs just because of NOT ENOUGH TAX REVENUE and NOT THIS OR THAT???? but say it is in the nature to protect us from Terrorism???

I don't s*** green any longer and I'm not buying it...

I've spent 18 yrs defending this country and loved every last minute of it... but now I think to myself and have asked the question out loud.. what is the meaning of Terrorism??? can someone give this defenitions???? where does it start?? at home????

Lets send a Voice to Washington and let them know WE Give a S***!!!!!!!!!!!

again all sorry for expressing my feelings with the SLANG... but don't get me started!!!!!!

Hog

Great update on where we all stand with this cigar ban thing. It looks promising!

Copy and paste, Watch,

Here it is in case Trish wants to yank the link...


First Battle Won: Long War to Come


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, HR2824 was marked-up by a single amendment submitted by Mark Green of Wisconsin and Marty Meehan of Massachusetts, and was reported out favorably by the House Judiciary Committee by a voice vote.

The GOOD NEWS is that, unlike the Senate bill, the House bill and its new amendment remained cigar-free and without any non-mailability provisions.

Thanks to the efforts of the Cigar Association of America (CAA), businesses within the industry and, of course, you guys, we have won a battle! We can not emphasize how important your direct input was to Judiciary and to your own elected representatives. While we in the industry are doing everything we can to prevent this lunacy, there is no doubt that the voices of individual passionate, cigar-smoking voters, such as you, helped SIGNIFICANTLY to keep HR2824 cigar-free! Bravo Zulu to All!

Now what? "The next crunch point will be the House/Senate conference committee which will meet to resolve the differences between the two bills," said Norman Sharp, the president of the CAA. "Once the conferees are appointed -- they tend to be the chief sponsors of the bills and chairmen of the relevant committees -- we will visit them and the appropriate staff members and try to get an assessment of where they stand..." In further comments, he expressed that, depending on how the Conference Committee members react to the CAA's effort to have cigars and the mail order ban stricken from the final bill will determine our next step. He states that our best tactic right now is to await the appointment of the conferees and then identify where they stand on this issue, before we mount another consumer campaign.

So, for now, we are being asked to "keep our powder dry," but be prepared to fire another round of letters to our elected officials when the need arises. We will continue to keep very close tabs on this situation and *** will remain vigilant in keeping cigar smokers informed of all major developments. While we may have won a battle, this is certain to be a long, hard war. Not only is this specific bill an issue, but various individual states are also considering cigar- shipping bans of their own, under the guise of protecting children. The anti-tobacco zealots are committed to abolishing our prerogative to enjoy a cigar, so we have to be steadfast in our own commitment to fight for our rights. However, for today, relish in our first of hopefully many victories for common sense - relax with a good cigar in hand, and prepare yourself for the legislative battles to come.