Hup, back in the 70s there was a military draft. Unless you had a deferment, like a health problem or were enrolled in college, you could get inducted into the selective service like I was, which generally meant brief training and off to the front lines. The guard has a sort of standby status that many preferred to gamble on rather than direct enlistment or risking the draft. It was common in those days to go to college or join the guard to avoid overseas duty. Not all of such positions were a guarantee of stateside service, but such a position did lower a person's odds considerably of ending up in a body bag. It's on public record from the former speaker of the Texas legislature than GWB and many others were granted guard status as a favor. Big surpise huh?

Now CP, for Public Record who is Ben Barns? other then the former Lt. governor of Texas???

"Ben Barnes, former speaker and lieutenant governor of Texas,"

Ben Barns Holds allot of water to the claims... Like a John Hinkley to claim he wasn't holding the gun in the attempted Reagan Assasination... although Barns shot his mouth off with Lies and ended up shooting himself in the foot as well as his buddy Dan Blather and the CBS Crew... he's a real credible person

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14993 

http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/SS/mqs1.html 

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0319b.html 

Yep Barns is a real peice of work... and CP your whining is putting your credibility in the same ranks as Mr. Barns and the likes of the Kerry/Clinton/Gore and the likes.....

notice I left Rick off that list? I think you can figure out why....

Now as the Thread Topic Was....

Hog

Hog, I'm about as desirous of your wet-behind-the-ears hillbilly respect as I am of hemmerhoids. But the facts of history still hold that Bush's daddy bought him a place in the guard with political influence to protect his lilly ass. You're too young to understand probably, but back in those days such action wasn't necessarily considered dishonorable, it was considered SMART!

" back in those days such action wasn't necessarily considered dishonorable, it was considered SMART!"

are you getting your information from first hand experience or you just piping off from what you've heard and read??

and what would you think of todays guard personel?? I mean this same option applies today as it applied back then CP... lets be rational with your irrational thinking???

You got the Hillbilly part right ;0) wet behind the ears... I'm LMAO at that lame attempt to discredit me... ;0)

Hog

I'm sure if the draft is reinstated the guard will assume the once insular appeal that it had back in the late 60s/early 70s. And you're not even a real hillbilly. I come from a small east Texas town where it's illegal to sell alcohol and have an uncle JoeBob in Shreveport. Now THAT'S hillbilly.

So to fit the bill of Hillbilly... I gotta come from a texas town where they don't sell alchol?? and have and Uncle,brother,cousin named joebob, billybob,jimbob or anything close to two names cramed together huh? how many rows a teeth do I need to produce??

Actually I grew up in a large city, a river town... Peoria IL... for most of my younger years and then moved to a small country town at the age of 16

I've been called a River Rat,from country folks... Hillbilly, from city folks... Cowboy, by women I've met.... Bikertrash, by chruch going elder Christians...

But not to change the direction of the thread...

although we do not need to worry about a draft.. at least for the next 4 yrs... the guard or reserves have changed considerably in a more active roll then it was even at during the vietnam era... meaning there is no sanctuary trying to beat anything by joining the guard or reserves this day and age as you speculate that being the case in the late 60's early 70's or even today if a draft were present... So with your avoiding the question above...

"are you getting your information from first hand experience or you just piping off from what you've heard and read??"

and your earlier comment about myself being to young to recall... I'm going to say your information is from first hand knowledge as your portraying Bush dodged the war... Did you yourself do the same CP?? or am I totally off base and it was the latter part of my unanswered question?

Hog

I sure the hell didn't volunteer. I was inducted into the selective sercive (what they called the draft then) when I was 17 years old. To be honest, I was simply to young, dumb and scared to do anything other than what I was told. And not to let the hyperbole get out of hand, because with hindsight, I sure don't begrudge or look down on anyone who made arrangements to avoid getting involved in something that stupid and senseless. 58,000 American souls and far more Vietnamese, many innocent civilians, perished in that orgy of insanity. What a crock. Never thought I'd live to see it happen again in my lifetime. One does sort of get a twinge of resentment to see the privileged buy their way out so easily, but it'd be pretty naive to imagine things ever being any different than they are now or were in the past in that regard.

CP-
I think you misunderstood what I was saying!
I remember the era perfectly I graduated H.S.
in '72. I think they stopped the draft in '71
and went to the lottery system. So I remember
what the feeling was. I grew up in a small
suburb of Chicago, as did most of my cousins
and their families. We were working middle
class people and yet my cousin signed up for
the guard and got in...he did it before they
drafted him. He was smart, but your right he had
no guarantees. My Bro and two other cousins were
drafted and went and put their year in Nam. Luckily
they all came home! My Brother has a purple heart,
bronze and silver star!
My point is my cousin was not priviledged in any way.
Just smart.
CP, if you look back at your thread you even said GWB was smart...Your sending mixed messages! LOL

Gentlemen,

Do you think GWB got into Yale because of his tremendous academic standing?
Maybe dad had something to do with it?

Do you think GWB joined the guard to protect our countries borders?
Maybe dad had something to do with that too?

If I were in his position, I would hope I had the political pull to avoid the Vietnam War as he did.

At least the dude dried up and straightened his ass out.

You were around back then so I don't need to spell it out Hup; save a little time here. It's hard to envision GWB as smart, but I think pappy is a sharp tack however, and behaved like the other rich, sharp tacks of that time and placed his contribution to the gene pool out of harms way. I'm not sending mixed messages, I'm just psychologizing those who droning on about how honorable and upright service is in the same breath as GWB, who basically ducked out, whether by choice or because his folks made him. Bush is no f*cking warrior, but a son of east coast, blue blooded privilege; cut primate a break here. On the one hand he was smart to avoid peril in a pointless conflict, on the other hand he bitched out when the going got tough; depends on the context it's viewed in. Personally, I find the former trope the more sensible of the two.

CP,

You answered my question, I want to say.. THANK YOU for your service to this Country!!!!

Right or Wrong War.. You were called upon and you answered the call.. As did 1000's of others..

As for this thread, I put Bush to Jefferson only in the sense of how he's dealt with the media... from there this thread had been taken way out of context and many more issue's discussed which twisted the intentional meaning of the original post...

I did however during our discussion sense you had a bitterness... because of your persistance of discussion towards bush, military, national guard, and the war... now knowing you had served and above all were drafted into serving I can see where you had the driving persistance... bitterness is a bad thing, it is something that does not allow someone to see the whole picture and in your case you don't like Bush because he or his father was smarter then yourself at the time 60/70's ... I did however see an attack not at bush but as National Guard as a whole in your wording above, thus my counter on that matter...

The bottom line, this discussion or debate or fued is not going anywhere... I would like you to know CP I would enjoy sitting down and smoking a cigar and conversation with you anytime!!!!

Hog

Well said Hog, me too!

CP, How did you get drafted at 17? My recollection was that 18 was the "lucky" age. I thought 17 was with enlistment with parents permission, or sometimes an alternative to incarceration.

Jefferson won the election of 1804 with 162 Electoral Votes to only 14 for Charles C. Pinckney. This in no way resembles the past election.

Yea it does AVB...

just like sports you win by one or you win by a hundred the bottom line is.... Jefferson just like Bush beat out his opponent and his critics ;0)

LOL 4MoreYears Get Over It!!!

Hog

Hog, Fascists and Communists don’t understand Representative Democracy either so you’re not alone.

LMAO @ AVB....LOL

4MoreYears ;0)~~~

Hog