I did not avoid however....the double post 🙂

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http://www.nationalreview.com/levin/levin200406011433.asp 

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Agreed. I need to go look at auctions first, (cigars - oh yeah...) then the post Hog mentioned, then I'll check it out!

National Review, I better put on my NBC gear. 🙂

Agreed. I need to go look at auctions first, (cigars - oh yeah...)

They sell cigars here?

National Review, I better put on my NBC gear. 🙂

LMAO....I tried to find those articles from somewhere else because I knew the link would cause suspicion and automatic doubt...but to no avail. 🙂

ok - got my smokes (woohoo) & read Genes post & LTC Ryans article.

First, I think its always good to know a little about the website(s) I'm visiting. As if the [What Rush Said] button didn't give it away.

http://newyorker.com/talk/content/?030908ta_talk_mcgrath 

!!!Warning!!! - NYer may be left wing - I don't read it & didn't notice a [What M.Moore Said] button, but use caution. 🙂

Nothing really inflammatory in there. (as long as you don't have a problem with the editor of the worldtribune.com being a follower of Reverend Sun Myung Moon. Man, haven't heard that name in ages.) Ok, so we get the impression we're solidly situated in the "Drudge" "Rush" "O'Reilly" neighborhood. Cue the 3 Stooges music. Taxi... j/k

We'll talk about how much damage a GBU-30 does to a residential structure another time. Anyway, LTC Ryan writes a decent article, sounds like a standup kinda guy, and says more than once that things in Iraq are "going quite well". Now, what exactly did you expect an Army Lieutenant Colonel to say? How often do you hear active duty 0-5s and above stationed in a warzone criticize US foreign policy? Hey, he's an American fighting soldier with a sworn duty to his country, his COs, and the men/women he commands. If he came out publicly and said "this whole operation is fubar" I'd be somewhat concerned, and he'd most likely be looking for a new job.

It's HIS duty to carry out lawful orders, wherever and whenever called upon to do so. It's OUR duty to make damn sure he's not risking his life in vain.

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Working on a sig.

"Oil, black gold, Texas T..."

Texas, who's from Texas? Who owned an oil company? Who was financed by the Bin Laden family? Who made sure all members of the Bin Laden family were put on planes within 48 hours after the Towers came down, without even having them questioned? You know him, you love him, say hello to your leader in the hunt for Saudi superstar and former US-funded terrorist turned rogue (UBL), iiiiiiiit's Dubya!!! And the crowd goes wild...

Too warm & fuzzy? I'll work on it. 🙂

Ok, I read the NationalReview article {cringe}, now I must go take a shower. 🙂

Actually I had this information, which was why I used the 1946/1947 timeframe. The first 6 months (45') were rough, and there were oftentimes acts of civil disobedience & confrontation, to include some murders of servicemen, so I can't fault the article in that regard. As far them trying to equate that to Iraq today...

One of the major differences is (IIRC) the frequency of these acts dropped off to nothing within the first 12 months. We've now passed the +21 month mark (after "mission accomplished") and there still seems to be serious resistance.

Another is that in Germany the general population wasn't armed for the most part. We won't talk about the merits of leaving an occupied populace armed...

One more is that there were no "foreign fighters" coming in to help the indigenous population in Germany rid themselves of the oppressor.

And finally, religion. That's probably the biggest ball of wax. (Tonight the role of Saladin will be played by Grand Ayatullah Sayyid Ali Al-Hussaini Al-Sistani, while the role of Raynald of Chatillon will be played by President George W. Bush.) I hate to even go into it at this point so as not to drive the current discussion off-topic, but the "religion gap", and the associated history of east/west relations from the middle ages through colonialization up until today (consider Israel) is indeed a massive impediment to any chance of reconciliation between the middle east & the west, or more on point between Iraq and the US.

Which in turn leads back to my original contention that there can be no victory in Iraq, or at least what we would consider a victory, and that leaving an occupying army in Iraq is just adding fuel to the fire.

Sleepytime... 🙂

Well done....we will agree to disagree (no one was trying to change any minds here) but your points there were valid and warranted. I think you are right in pointing out the religious aspect of it. I think it is something that no one wants to admit, but we are in a religious war, at least from the perspective of the enemy. In the end it may come down to this point (which is a huge one), but I think America will do its best to change the minds of the people there (ala bringing in our religion, not christianity, good ole fashioned American capilistic fast food culture). It worked in the Soviet Union and the Eastern Block, it might work here as well, heck, it's one of the few places in the world where it has yet to invade. Once we get a Walmart in there, they'll never look back 🙂

Excellent discussion though....

Agreed, excellent discussion. Thanx bro.

When we have won, please give me a buzz. Until then, we are in damage control mode and must make as much lemonade as possible.......no, we can't just jet now, rather we must see this through. Unfortunately, many more will die.

BTW, 8 million out of 28+ million is not near as impressive as some let on to believe; however, I was surprised that many people turned out.

Yup, them sure were some fine elections alrighty. Americans were so pumped up for them and the results that would dramatically alter the country.

Well, they've come and gone (the elections that is). Where's all the hype? Where's all the multiple threads that were posted in anticipation of these puppet elections?

How soon we forget......I guess we've moved on to something bigger and better (oh yeah, North Korea took our mind off of the elections....good move). Now we're thinking in terms of Syria.

Stick and move Georgie, Stick and move. Never let them focus on the past, only on the promises of the future.

Okay gang.......tell me, what have we accomplished so far?

well would the situation happening "NOW" in Lebanon had happened if it were not for the efforts in Iraq??

easy answer "NOPE"

Would Kadaffi (sp) had given up all his nuke secrets and quit what intentions his Country shown to have for years and now chose Democracy had it not been for the efforts in Iraq??

another easy one... "NOPE"

we are witnessing History for the good, whether you want it to sink in or not!!!! It's Happening!!!!!

just in Lebanon alone last week Christians and Muslims joined in the streets together crying for Democracy!!!!

this is something the Media cannot even downplay!!!!

Change is coming and it looks good so far??

Hog

"....and now, our Global Anthem"

Everybody join in....

"Can't you see?"

"It all makes perfect sense, expressed in Dollars and Cents, Pounds, Shillings, and Pence."

Democracy may be coming, but I'm not sure if we should be the ones leading the charge.

As democracy goes up, our dollar goes down.

I sort of liked being a world power. We're slowly losing that title, as we give it to others.