Republicans/conservative/christian= racist, redneck, intolerant, homophobe, uncaring, selfish, oportunistic.

Democrat/liberal/freethinker(athiest)= enlighened, wise, compassionate, tolerant, altruistic

TRUTH= a BOTL who dwelt among us who doesn't need to be named, was a transgendered female, living as a male. Under tragic circumstanses, our "Brother" was lost. While I don't try to say that God approves of any particular behavior, I find myself wanting to ask everyone a few questions.

1) If someone told you that the grass was green, the sky is blue, Torano cigars are great, and classic rock music kicks ass, would you need to be assured of their gender before you accepted the validity of thier observations and or opinions? if not, what difference does it make?

2)Who's the greater intolerant, rednecked, homophobic hatemonger, the Christians who mourn for their lost friend, or a liberal who tries to make them feel hypocritical by 'outing' a lifestyle that the one who lived it didn't feel led to advertise.

I choose to remember my friend as he chose to be thought of, not as some wise, enlightened, altruistic caring and compassionate sumbitch thinks I ought to!

Please note, I have named no one, if the shoe fits, wear it. But I'm tired of having people who believe many of the same things I do painted as being like those who wield the brush!

1) Ones lifestyle and sexual preference is a private matter and has no bearing on their ability to reason.

2) Liberals and conservatives both can be very hahrsh.

How does that saying go?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?

Or something to that affect.

I think it is rather fitting.

Normally Rick doesn't bother me...but this time he did. I know that we have differing opinions on everything, but most of my friends are liberal and for the most part, I like liberals. This time though, I think that he crossed the line.

I'm not angry, I'm sad. Sad for him that he feels he needs to act this way....

CWFoster

Well said!

I salute you sir!

myash07

I try to make things simple.

I like to have "good neighbors", with the emphasis on what we have in common....whether it is Toranos or Rock music or whatever....With RESPECT for each other.

I do not care for anyone who consistently says he is "right", and beating me over the head to show how "superior" he is goes no where with me, and does not make me want to listen to him. It is not only the message, it is HOW it is delivered. The same individual who consistently shows no remorse, no sensitivity to others, is NOT a "good neighbor".

I agree with CW. People and (some individuals here)are quick to stereotype. To me, once again, it is what we have in common that is key. I enjoy differences in opinion, if they are presented in a non offensive way.

But like my real neighborhood, which is as integrated as possible(black, white, asian, hispanic, gay,lesbian, straight, young, old, lower class, middle class, upper class, and variations of all the above)..

I just want to have good neighbors, and the individual who "lit this fire", is not.

Tony was a good neighbor. I hope this dialogue doesn't overshadow the loss of a true BOTL.

If I offend anyone, I appoligize now. I am new to this board and try to keep my personal views to myself and d

iscuss cigar matters with others. I have read some things that I particularly did'nt like but looked over it. This one, CWFOSTER, I have to comment on. I, Myself am a consevative Republican and a christain. Mr foster has pegged me as being a racist,intolerant,homophobic,uncaring. Anyone that knows me will tell you I am far from that. I care for people, that is one of the reasons that I became a law enforcement Officer. I took an oath to to uphold the laws of my state and to protect the people that reside there. when I patrol the steets and find someone in need, I don't stop to ask what religion or political preferance or sexual preferance they are. It don't really matter. And to say I'm a racist is obserd. My best friend is a black man and I'll take a bullet for him anyday. I don't appriciate being steriotyped in this manner. I came to this board wanting to make new friends and I have. I hope I did'nt offend anyone, If I did, I appologize again. Bye the way, Yes I am A REDNECK and proud of it. That by the way is a good thing.

K9kop....You need to reread CW's post. As I see it, he was exhibiting how absurd it was to have the stereotypes that offended you. There was not any "foul" as read it.

My appologies, Just got out of bed and didn't read it correctly.

To be honest,

I could give a ****, about sexual identification, or gender, when making a judgement about someone. I am a conservative, and I consider myself a christian. But I make no earthly judgements, about anyone, as those judgements are for my God to make, and not me. Two of my best friends, here in Arkansas, are a lesbian couple, who have been together over 20 years. I have left 3 churches, where members were harping on the sins, of others, instead of loving them as children of Christ. Many Churches, are filled with these Pharasees, who can't see their own sin, as they are blinded by the sins of others. I know I am a sinner, and that is between me and my God. As for making judgements on the sins of others, is a sin in of itsself.

Yes the nameless one is a sinner, but I love him as one of my Gods creations, and will not stoop, to labeling, or pointing out their sins, as it may draw my own attention, away from my own sin. Yes no matter how hurtfull someone elses sin is to me, it is not my buisness, but the buisness of that person and God. I see too many so-called Christians, who are preoccupied with the sins of others, and don't acknowedge their own sin. I feel sorry for those, as they will not be in the presence of the Lord, after judgement day.

OK enough of my rant.

I will pray for that persons soul, as I pray for my own, but not be consumed by pointing out their sins, and not pay attention to my own.

Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)

CW,

Good points! I think this is probably the thread to come right out and say who the people are that we are talking about!

Please, correct me if I'm wrong....

The transgendered female we are referring to was Tony, who just passed away recently from a tragic car accident. His wife also died from that same accident. It was tragic no matter who it was, and as I've said in another post it could happen to any of us!!(God forbid)!

On your point #2, "Who's the greater intolerant...

I think you're referring to all the negative rebuttals Rick got for his comments on Liz's memorial thread to Tony! Once again if I'm wrong I apologize!

Those rebuttals were from people who were angry that Rick would bring that up on a memorial posting. I agree with that....and so does Rick...he kinda sorta apologized for doing that!

The point is, it was a memorial for Tony...His/Her life was lost tragically...all the other issues didn't matter. You had more compassion on this thread explaining the situation than Rick did on Lizs' thread.

I'm new on this board, and I don't think it matters what I am or who I am, what I'm typing are my opinions in response to what you posted! I could choose to respond with anger, and cursing, or I can respond calmly and explain what I think of the situation. Once again I may be way out of line on this...and you'll have your opportunity to tell me that. But being a human being with feelings, Tony and Saras' tragic demise almost brings me to tears!!

The bottom line is that Rick should post all the things he wants to say about Tony on this thread, or start a new one. It was wrong to do it on Lizs'.

And this is becoming a new dead horse...cello on or off.

hup

Thanks Hup! And I'm glad you came to realize that my opening lines are the very stereotypes I'm sick of K9Kop! I find we can all be (at least seem) intolerant at times. Probably the worst is the newbies getting blasted over the cello on/off debate. Overall the BOTL on here are first rate, and as far as a generous trader and BOTL, few can top Rick. My saddness is over his apparent need to try to "show the hypocracy" of the "christian right" by airing our friends personal life, further doing so as we were and are deep in grief at our loss. MOST christian realize that we are lost sinners ourselves but for the grace of God and the shed blood of Jesus, and many of us have come to see that as we judge others, often we come under the same trials and tempations and fail miserably, and so try hard not to judge! I choose not to use names in this post, because of the forum policy against personal attacks, but feel that addressing some issues ought to be possible by separating the actor from the act, and simply addressing the act itself. That being said, I do not hate Rick, he has always shown himself to be a thoughtful (when not posting) and generous Brother of the Leaf. But Smearing my friends private life (granted SOME ARE intolerant homophobes, I'll address that shortly) was uncalled for, and maybe my ostracism wil cause HIM to think, much as he posts to get others to think.

Shortly after the accident, I received two emails from people who sometimes post on here, informing me of "the situation". They said that I and others ought to know the truth and then if I or they wanted to respond or not we would be making an informed decision rather than one based on what we had been led to beleive. I responded much as I did above, stating that nothing I ever had to do with my friend was based on gender, sex, or sexual orientation, and I was somewhat surprised, but not nearly as much as hurting for my buddy who was grievously injured, and had lost all that he loved. To see that same claptrap brought up in a memorial thread was inexcusable, I forgive him, but will not forget,nor let this pass without doing what I can to impress upon him that spreading hate and discontent for the purpose of stimulating debate has it's time and place, and this was certainly neither.

BTW, I've seen enough intolerance on BOTH sides of the political/socioeconomic fence! My whole point is that the liberal element somehow seems to feel that the intolerance shown by the right is based on blind ignorance, while theirs is based of a wise enlightenment, that they seem to possess some great wisdom that escapes us lesser mortals, and the arrogance of that sickens me to no end!

K9Kop, feel better? 🙂

CW,

I agree with you totally! Like I've said before

I never knew your friend, only read some of his posts.

But you could tell he was a good person by by what

he said. Really nothing else makes a difference.

I'm terribly sorry for your loss, and for everyone

elses whose lives were touched by Him and Sara.

God Bless all of us!

Yes, even Rick!