OK, while we are injecting God into this...
...the Bible is FULL of "murder" (as you define it) sanctioned by God. Many of the punishments in the Old Testament explicitly state terminating one or more lives for a violation of Mosaic Law. In fact, the New Testament - especially Revelations - also mentions Godly "murder" (again this is YOUR definition, not mine) during the Great Tribulation.
Christ mentions in a couple of places where someone should "hang a millstone around their neck and jump into the sea" for false teachings.
The difference between what is sanctioned by God and what is not is the simple application of what we define in this nation as "Due Process." That is a simple hearing with evidence and witnesses. In fact, the Biblical application of this is unique and distinct from many ancient practices (we get out jury system from the Norse, I believe).
You talk like simply removing someone's liberties is no big deal. I dunno if you've ever seen what the inside of a maximum security prison is like, but I guarantee you it is not Club Med. And in some instances, sentencing someone to a maximum security prison is basically sentencing them to death. I'd say, "just ask Jeffrey Dhamer" but...uh...he's dead. You can't ask him anything now.
The same is true of many hit men for the mob. They know that going to jail is basically a death sentence.
So, if you are going to stay committed to your principle of "simply" removing criminals from society of they commit murder, you may have to go to some pretty extraordinary lengths to keep that commitment. Otherwise, you may be just as guilty of murder as the people you condemn.
Tell me, in that emotionally heated exchange when did the victim get all of that "due process" given to the perpetrator? I'll answer that for you: never.
Tell me where the emotion was when a gang-banger or a outlaw biker murdered an innocent victim as part of their initiation? Or how about those who do paid contracts for organized crime?
Lovely ideal you have their. Unfortunately, I live in the real world.
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? Huh?
I have no idea what you think you are correcting me on or debating at all from my post/opinion so the above is a blast of misdirected gas.
I certainly did not "introduce God" the way you took off from, nor biblical justice. You should have seen the word God in my post used as a comparison stating that mistakes can be made by mere mortals/humans when judging the accused because they are not God. Clearly I meant God as in: synonymous with what many consider perfect, infallible, all-knowing...leading to the understanding on the readers' part (missed by you somehow) that even a perfectly legal fair trial can condemn an innocent person to death to be performed by the state. basically legal murder, due to possible human error.
But if there were no executions, then no mistakes. That's the 100% I'm looking for. There should be zero tolerance for the state making that error, unless you are also ok with that much big government power. Thought you weren't before this thread. My misinterpretation I suppose.
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Yeah, that's a lovely argument.
Then again, someone breaks into the home of an old woman, beats her to death after raping her, and your answer is for that to feed, clothe, educate, and keep that wonderful specimen of humanity alive for the next 50-or-so years. Oh, and tax the family of the victim for the criminal's upkeep. What a humanitarian you are.
Yeah, you want to compare numbers of people supposedly wrongly convicted against the masses of people who shouldn't be sharing the same air as the rest of us? I'll take that challenge...
jpotts wrote:
