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Ndill
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

12 years ago

From my understanding when a B&M gets an account (opus,LP,Tat,etc) they are required to sign a contract. These contracts state that they will buy so much of the product and have some other requirements also. I have heard that Opus/anejo accounts have stipulations that state that you must make the cigars open to the public and not sell privately. I have also heard things like you can only sell so many per customer (which I have seen), must sell at this price or only x% above, and no blatant selling to other companies for 3rd party selling. Anyone have any factual knowledge of this or the stipulations of the contracts?

The reason I ask is this. I live in a town of around 35k people. It is a university town and when all the kiddies are here add another 10kish. There are two places to get tobacco outside of just cigarette and chew. One is a place managed by a friend of mine. It mainly deals in RYO stuff, cigarette, chew, and a few pipe tobaccos. It also has a small walk in, which carries mostly lower end fuentes, bolivar, ashton, etc. Main sells are bundle cigars for the golfer and fisherman who just want something to smoke. My friend is a very well versed tobacco enthusiast. Not so up on the trends and the popular things that people are chasing but nonetheless knows a a lot about tobacco. There is another store that is a store that is more geared toward cigars and pipe tobacco sells. I have been in this store 3-4 times over the last few years. The walk in humidor is huge but only carries very low end lines like my friends store minus the bundle cigars. There are 5-6 feet of open shelve between each box and multiple empty boxes. Pipe tobacco is mainly bulk stuff that is along the lines of black cavendish, cherry cavendish, etc. A few blends of his own but no more that 7-8 total types of pipe baccy. Been in there a few times and just got the feeling from being around the owner that he isn't very friendly and kind of a tool. I have heard that he had a Opus account and it blew my mind. How the heck could he get that? I had also heard that he privately sells all the Opus/anejo he receives. Well, I went in today to look what pipe tobacco he has and stepped in the humidor. I noticed among the empty Montesino and partagas boxes three tins of Opus x (first time I have EVER seen any opus in there). When I walked out I asked the boy that was working (not the owner, he was not there) if he has an opus account and when are his shipments. The employee stated that he did have an account. I asked if he sells most of it privately and the employee replies "yes, most of the opus are sold and are never on the shelf for the public". I am not going to mess with the mans business but this sort of irritates me. Seems to be against everything I think cigars is about. My questions is, is this against the Opus contract?

Edited by user 12 years ago | Reason: Not specified

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rfenst
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

Very common that stores save their premium Fuentes for preferred customers or to charge above MSRP.

Ndill
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

12 years ago

Very common that stores save their premium Fuentes for preferred customers or to charge above MSRP.

rfenst wrote:

Wow that sucks. All the B&M that I have been to that actually had opus where priced about the same. Preferred customers is BS.....at least make some available to the public.

KingoftheCove
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

This is a grey, sticky area.
Many B&Ms have enough trouble simply trying to stay in business what with online sales taking over the industry.

They have a few services to offer, which can set them apart:
1) Smoking lounge
2) Taking care of preferred customers (my shpo protects me!!)
3) Instant gratification.....buy it, smoke it now.

So, if this guy is actually selling these to his preferred customers, at the proper price, well then more power to him. Would it be nice if he put some out for his occasional walkin clientele...............of course.
If on the other hand, he's selling them at OLH, or other similar venues, for inflated prices, or for resale, etc.............well, then he is a tool.

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

Does he have fake maduro double robusto Opus?

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

The shpo owner bears the risk of his business' success or failure as such that person owns that product and should be free to do what ever he wishes to do with it, within the confines of sensible regulation, including selling it for as much as he can in any forum available.

Since the OP regards a Fuente product, I'll take it a step further. Though I don't have a Fuente account, I've been told by more than one shpo owner that Fuente doesn't offer keystone pricing. As a result, the burden that shpo owners that are situated in high tobacco tax locals are at a highly competitive disadvantage from online shpo's in tax friendly locations. If true, the Fuente's aren't doing anything to help them.

One may even wonder about the recent removal of Fuente product from online auctions. Again, I've been told by a shpo owner that the closing prices on some auctions are lower than their account price.

Ndill
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

12 years ago

Abrignac wrote:

I usually agree with what I have read you post in the past but I am not in total agreement with this. Yes, he does have the business and himself to look out for. At what point though is a service business become a self serving business while you have a limited and controlled product that people want?

Thunder.Gerbil
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

I don't think there is anything in the agreement that prevents the shop from choosing who to sell the cigars to. And when you look at a place like Casa Fuente, the whole sell at MSRP thing goes out the window.

There are a few B&M's by me who will have Opus Xes and Anjeos, to my knowledge, only one of them is an Opus account, and he's been an Opus account since basically the beginning (95 or 96 iirc). He sells them at MSRP, typically to preferred customers off of a waiting list. The non-account B&Ms, these are the a-holes who make Fuente and the rest of them look bad. Who knows where they are getting their inventory from, but you can find it in their humidor at insanely high prices. One jackhole was charging $96 for the tin of three robustos.

Ndill
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

12 years ago

KingoftheCove wrote:

Yes to all of those. I have had business owner do the same for me as well. I think what bothers me is that he will only sell these opus to friends and won't make them available to other people as well, no matter how much you can strive to be "preferred". I would bet that I spend more money on cigars that 75% of people who smoke and won't have access.

The more I think about it I am just pissed about it and not thinking logically from a business mindset.

Plowboy221
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#10

You wouldnt happen to be talking about the one with yester in it Would you?

Edited by user 12 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#11

Ndill wrote:

It really comes down to civil rights. My far-left leaning mother taught me that my rights end where another person's begin. That's about the only thing we agree on.

With that in mind, I see no right to anything by a consumer until that person has actually completed a mutially agreeable transaction. Consider it a property rights issue. As long as one's use of their property doesn't cause harm to another, then their rights reign.

That's not to say that I wouldn't be pissed if I couldn't obtain something I desired due to unfavorable conditions. But, you're going to have a hard time making a case you were "harmed" because someone will sell you 98.5% of his inventory, but reserves the other 1.5% for his best customers.

As far as a business becoming self-serving. If the point comes where the customer's feel that way, then that situation will take care of itself.

All that being said, my shpo's protect me. I can usually get hard to find Fuente product at MSRP. If there is something you want, I'd be glad to pick it up and send it your way. IIRC one of the B&M's I frequent has Anejo's in stock, the other one has Anejo's and xXx Belicoso's in stock. One even has an unopened box of sungrown 8-9-8's. But, I think the manager is hoarding that for herself.

Ndill
Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter

12 years ago

#12

You wouldnt happen to be talking about the one with yester in it Would you?

Plowboy221 wrote:

PMs

Thunder.Gerbil
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#13

You wouldnt happen to be talking about the one with yester in it Would you?

Plowboy221 wrote:

Me? No.

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#14

NDill I would tell him your "preferred" business will be conducted somewhere else if you don't get on the list. Then ask him if its because your part black and tell him the conversation is being recorded

ZRX1200
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#15

Also the biggest obligation of having an account that I know of is buying a certain dollar number of their product every year. If this shop is as rinky-dink is you say I would but that he is buying them on the secondary markets and being the cool guy with his friends while making a buck

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#16

ZRX1200 wrote:

Not so much minimum pricing, but surprise orders. I recall being at a shpo owned by a very good friend. One day when a box came in from Fuente. He looked at it and began cursing. It seems he'd gotten a shipment of cigars he hadn't ordered, but was assumed he'd want them anyway. Since he actually had an Opus account, he said he had to suck it up. When he went out of business, he had as many Fuente cigars as he had of all else combined.

IIRC he had about 10-20 different Opus vitolas in stock. Right before he shut his door, I remember him trying to work out a deal from an out of state buyer trying to bye out his remaining Opus stock. MSPR was about $8000 for all of them.

The running joke in the shpo was a take on Henry Ford's famous quote. It was "Boys you can have any cigar you want as long as it's a Fuente."

gryphonms
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#17

I am very fortunate that my local B&M has good business practices. He has also cultivated back channel relationships with the producers for lack of a better term. He sells 50% of his hard to get cigars to preferred customers. The other 50% go into the humidor. I think this is a fine set up which is good for his business.

bassman45
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#18

Does he have fake maduro double robusto Opus?

ZRX1200 wrote:

I've still got 1 left from here8-[

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#19

Abrignac wrote:

An interesting wrinkle in the debate would be the rights of the manufacturer. One could argue they sold to him in good faith that he would redistribute, through a legitimate business, the goods.

Not disagreeing with you exactly, but when you discussed the rights of the business-owner vs consumer it occurred to me that there might be a 3rd party who has specific expectations of the deal. More importantly, these expectations may be built into a contracted sale.

Abrignac
Herf-A-Holic

12 years ago

#20

victor809 wrote:

Valid point. But, as they say possession is 9/10's of the law. The shpo owner does risk the loss of his account if he doesn't follow the agreed upon rules.

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