You must not have much experience with intelligent people then. I know plenty that can do all kinds of algebra in their heads And they are far from liberals or dummies. As matter fact they are quite the opposite.

My experience is people who complain about intelligent people not having "common sense" don't really understand how anything works and believe "common sense" is a magical gift they have. . .

illinichaser wrote:

I have lots of experience with intelligent people, my friend. Too much to be honest. Judges, Masters, Police Chiefs and such. I was just trying to be a little humorous.

Not very good at it, I guess.

Carib1 wrote:

Where is this book you speak of, I was actually thinking about optimizing my technique to a more modern standard.

Does it by chance explain how the three sea shells work?

bgz wrote:

I agree, my point was there are reasons kids struggle with math and they are not an excuse for eliminating they are a reason to change their approach to teaching math.

Gene363 wrote:

takes money

frankj1 wrote:

It's not free, however, if you unburden teachers from actually teaching. Quit requiring teaching to standardised tests and go back to the basics. Then reduce non teaching staff and school district management and you could get very close. It's happening all time in private schools and with homeschooled children.

Gene363 wrote:

Math is really critical to ordered thought.

victor809 wrote:

if you unburden teachers from actually teaching.

Gene363 wrote:

Or trump supporters?

Or Cruz supporters?

Pick your personal favorite political group pinata.... without actual data showing whatever group you hate the most has a higher incidence of failing algebra, you're no different than the group you're claiming superiority over.

victor809 wrote:

I argue that programming is a better way to learn ordered thought, which requires no algebra.

I think Victor89 has established that Algebraic logic is valuable. I fail to see his case that Algebra will be valuable for all and must be a required course. Learning the abstract idea that A is a subset of B in algebra doesn't mean one wouldn't already know that men are a subset of mortals without algebra. I challenge him to provide an example of a common problem that one couldn't otherwise solve without algebra or algebraic logic.

This quote makes no sense to me. And I strongly disagree with the need to decentralize teaching standards. How can we know how well we are doing without a standardized test? Because everyone passes? Maybe everyone should pass and then our education system would be top notch.

The troubling side of the story to me is indicated in this thread. The world is filled with yokels who rather than spend some time concentrating on a topic that is difficult, would rather throw their hands up and make jokes. I believe this is a large reason people fail algebra. Also they don't know how to get the help they need, i.e. utilize their resources effectively. This is also related to the lack of trying.

joshander wrote:

I argue that programming is a better way to learn ordered thought, which requires no algebra.

I think Victor89 has established that Algebraic logic is valuable. I fail to see his case that Algebra will be valuable for all and must be a required course. Learning the abstract idea that A is a subset of B in algebra doesn't mean one wouldn't already know that men are a subset of mortals without algebra. I challenge him to provide an example of a common problem that one couldn't otherwise solve without algebra or algebraic logic.

This quote makes no sense to me. And I strongly disagree with the need to decentralize teaching standards. How can we know how well we are doing without a standardized test? Because everyone passes? Maybe everyone should pass and then our education system would be top notch.

The troubling side of the story to me is indicated in this thread. The world is filled with yokels who rather than spend some time concentrating on a topic that is difficult, would rather throw their hands up and make jokes. I believe this is a large reason people fail algebra. Also they don't know how to get the help they need, i.e. utilize their resources effectively. This is also related to the lack of trying.

joshander wrote:

takes money

frankj1 wrote:

And in a few cases throughout the country there has been cheating to get test results looking better, perhaps we only know of these occurrences when they get caught. Perhaps honesty is part of the problem.

tonygraz wrote:

In the mid 90's it was recognized in Massachusetts that some schools had smaht graduates while others had dummies.

So they invented the Massachusetts Comprehensive Assessment System (MCAS) testing.

A standardized test to ensure that graduates from a poor town like Lawrence would meet the same minimums as a rich town like Newton.

A great idea, in concept.

A terrible boondoggle in practice.

At first, the results were predictable: Good schools fared well. bad schools didn't.

So the test was changed: questions were reconstructed and the overall level was dumbed down. Several times.

The new unorthodox question format meant that teachers began teaching-to-the-test, since results were tied to school ratings and state funding.

Good students still fared well, but their studies were hindered by the school days lost to preparing for the test.

Bad students still did poorly, but often could learn enough to "pass" because weeks were wasted learning the test.

And all this could have been avoided, if only the state school board had bothered to learn algebra...

tailgater wrote: