I'll tell people about all the math I took, and they ask, well... do you actually use all that stuff?

The answer for the most part is no (even though I do use a lot of math). I don't necessarily need differential equations, nor do I need to prove abstract algebraic theorems...

However, without taking those advanced math classes, I don't know if I would be able to come up with some of the crazy solutions I come up with for real world problems on a regular basis.

In other words, math gets your head geared toward critical thinking to solve problems that require more than a few steps to solve.

So yes, I do use the skills I learned studying mathematics on a regular basis, in a round-a-bout sort of way.

say, "in their heads", usually have to read a book to learn how to wipe their asses correctly.............

And to be perfectly honest, most of "these kina people" are Liberals. Coincidence?

Just my personal experience with these kinda people.........

Me too! I tip very well because I know how hard most of them work.

I'm guessing you don't know many people... 😟

You must not have much experience with intelligent people then. I know plenty that can do all kinds of algebra in their heads And they are far from liberals or dummies. As matter fact they are quite the opposite.

My experience is people who complain about intelligent people not having "common sense" don't really understand how anything works and believe "common sense" is a magical gift they have. . .

+1000

People who don't understand math, don't understand because they don't get logic.

Plus its fun to tell the gals with the calculators in stores trying to figure out the sale price to put the calculator away because I can do the math faster than they can punch the buttons. . .

I think algebra is important, and it certainly does use much of the logic associated with other studies.

And we should keep it in schools and try to teach it in the best manner possible.

And I did OK enough, so this isn't a defensive posture by any stretch.

But to suggest that a failure to comprehend algebra is a failure to have any sense of logic?

Ironic.

Because you might know algebra, but your logic fails you. And we're talking very basic Cow Logic here.

Math deficiencies can be attributed to many different causes. Logic is one, for certain. But it doesn't stop there and to say it does serves no function other to make yourself feel smarter. Or perhaps to prove otherwise.

Aristotelian Logic is a representation of the most basic set algebra:

All men are mortals

All Socrates are men

All Socrates are mortals

B ⊆ A where A is men and B is mortals

C ⊆ B where C is Socrates

--> C ⊆ A

This is both logic and algebra.

Or look at propositional logic. The same ability to understand a representation of a number or idea in an equation is required to be able to understand how propositional logic can be utilized.

I'm not talking higher level algebra here. I'm simply talking about people being able to understand the use of a variable in an equation, to understand how to solve for a variable using a set of two or more equations, each of which gives you more information about that variable (ie A+2 = B; A*2 =B... do you know enough to say what A is?). Understanding this uses much of the same ideas required to successfully understand logic courses.

My exact quote was "An inability to understand algebra seriously brings into question whether that individual can understand the most basic tenets of logical structure. "

To rearrange that to be "to suggest that a failure to comprehend algebra is a failure to have any sense of logic" is itself incorrect. As in "failure to have any sense of logic" is not necessarily a subset of "I question whether that individual can understand the most basic tenets of logical structure".

And yet you followed up with:

"We're not just talking "dumb". We're talking about people who you literally are unable to reason with."

True.

I may have exaggerated for effect. 🙂

Where is this book you speak of, I was actually thinking about optimizing my technique to a more modern standard.

Does it by chance explain how the three sea shells work?

Unless... they actually understand the theory and logic but have dyslexia and never seldom the right numeric answer simply because they transpose numbers and fail almost every test.

I struggled thru algebra, college algebra and trigonometry while getting an A in physics and chemistry classes. When I took surveying the instructor required us to buy a calculator to take the class. This was back when a calculator that did square root cost more than $200 and that was a lot of cash. I got the calculator, applied all the math I had learned, in interesting ways, let the calculator do the arithmetic and passed at the top of the class. For some reason using the numeric keypad by sight and not memory eliminated the problems with number transposition.

School should be challenging, it should make you grow, if it's too easy we do a grave disservice to future generations. Not every kid is going to be a scientist so there should be alternative paths to success, shop and technical classes for example. We also need to better understand how kids learn and better train teachers to recognize those differences and adjust their approach accordingly.

But that's not an excuse for not teaching them Algebra and ensuring they understand the theories and logic behind it. That's a rationale for changing the testing methods or teaching methods to determine whether the information has been appropriately absorbed, and the student is simply making transposition errors, or if they are failing to understand the theory/logic...

It's a valid issue with teaching of any math, but not a reason to allow students to not learn basic algebra... its a reason to teach those students ways to get around the issues they have with number transposition, to the root of the equations.

Math is really critical to ordered thought.

I agree, my point was there are reasons kids struggle with math and they are not an excuse for eliminating they are a reason to change their approach to teaching math.