twigs and berries

yes. his kids were on the spectrum, and the timeline from vaccination was swift.

twigs and berries

I’d encourage anyone to turn off the news regardless of channel. Look at which communities are involved and where they are. Look at their make up and patterns. Decide for yourself what you think is happening. Sure there are some pretty sophisticated models I’ve seen, but decide for yourself.

By the way, unrelated but interesting to me. One well intentioned project I’m involved with involving opioids had the exact opposite result of what was intended. Had to learn and adjust. We were wrong no matter how well intended. Interestingly enough (and unrelated to) it was in one of the measles hot spots.

I prefer to watch OAN. Right now I am digging the Science channel... "How's it made"?

MACS honestly I wasn’t tryin to bag on you but rereading get how it may have come accross that way. I was just being matter of fact about info I have and then just playing around. Who knows?

I’m not that dug in and to be honesT not that invested.

Just my 2 cents. From a statistical point of view measles had been eradicated. But there were always still outlier cases of measles. By having pockets of non vaccinated children the vector found a place where it could explode.

^Another possibility.

My scenario would actually dove tail whith what you are saying. The vector could easily be an illegal alien in various pockets of measles. My apologies TW, vector is probably not the correct term, but it is the best term I could think of. Has any research been done on who patient number one was in these measles pockets and how were they infected?

Using your terminology what makes you think it would have to be an illegal sparking that vector? It could be anything from outside that vector including a carrier. Illegal has nothing to do with it.

And yes it’s being studied intensely and nothing thus far is tying it to the illegal issue. There is nothing suggesting causality or lack of.

Perhaps the core issue in those “vectors” would be the anti vax folks rather than illegal immigration.

That statement does not to equate to illegal immigration not being an issue. Just not this issue.

Well... many outside countries don't vaccinate like we do. It is entirely possible the whole outbreak started from an immigrant who was infected. Illegal or legal.

And I don't believe I even mentioned illegal. If we had it eradicated, it got here somehow. My first inclination is to believe it came from outside our borders. And if most of us got vaccinated, the most likely route is an immigrant who wasn't... or a non-vaccinated American who left and came back with it.

Since most of us DO get vaccinated... what's the most likely scenario?

TW, I am saying the vector/host could be anyone. I think it is straight forward enough that anti vaxxers are the problem causing outbreaks of measles. I think it is logical to assume that patient 0 is the root of each pocket of measles. But, where and how did patient 0 become infected?

Or someone unvaccinated or even vaccinated could have visited somewhere else in the world and brought it back or many other completely different scenarios not involving other countries. Likely multiple different scenarios.

Jumping to immigrants legal or otherwise is convenient in an anti immigration time/culture but likely applies preconceived or desired filters rather than the scientific method or any true method of deduction.

Rather than jumping to the big bad immigrants maybe the real issue is the anti vax folks. Or maybe the disease has evolved. I have no reason to believe the latter but it has to be on the table. And yes in some scenarios it could be an immigrant legal or otherwise.

Maybe it is the nail antiimmigratuon hammers want. Maybe not. We do know for sure Americans not getter not vaccinated are the boogieman. We are speculating on the other.

Spey our posts crossed. I get what you are saying and think we are saying similar.

Jumping straight to immigrantscare the issue is very dangerous and convenient. Very similar but gongs happened in the 1930s..... and probably always to some extent.

But gongs? I’m not sure what I typed but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t but gongs.

I’m not even saying macs is wrong. He could be right or partially right. It’s just interesting to jump right to that.

Given that the measles virus can live 2hrs in the air or on surfaces it likely travels very well on its own.

And why would you even bother going to immigration? The US is a major tourism destination. People travel here from all over the world. If you're going to focus on immigration why wouldn't you focus on tourism?

If you're going to play around with the idea of shutting down immigration to protect idiots who dont vaccinate you also need to shut down tourism to the US.

That’s the other issue, the solution. It seems as if some want the solution to be better control of immigration. Wall or otherwise. It seems like a premade already built solution looking for a problem.

It would be easier to build a wall around the anti vax folks.