[quote=Tittums]Yeah, I am definitely trying to avoid HCl since I believe that is lethal? So I have not started heating things and will likely avoid buying a boiling flask to start doing it.

NaOH is Sodium Hydroxide? Unless I made it by accident this shouldn't be present?[/quote]

most equations are reversible, and at equilibrium (equilibrium is based on the concentrations of everything present) you'll get a bit from each side of the arrow. If you look at the equations above, NH3, NaCl and H2O are all that's required for the equation to move right to left to give you NaOH.

I wouldn't worry about HCl being lethal. I'm betting it would just slightly change the pH of your water... and probably smell like a pool a little.

[quote]

MgCl2 is not in this solution but I am willing to accept some contamination from previous mixes if the salts managed to form within the bag itself while evaporating.[/quote] ignore that part of my statement. I misread your post above and thought you'd added MgCl2.

[quote]

I am just bummed about this because I didn't spend too much on the Ammonium Chloride but the smallest amount I could get on Amazon was 1 pound so I have a lot of it.

As I write this I remember it has uses in food preparation which provided more information upon searching:

Again, no expert here, but maybe I am adding too much water?

[/quote]

I am NOT good at figuring total solubility. but that's an easy thing to test.

Maybe first try mixing the dry components and then put them in a sealed container with an open tub of water. See how much it absorbs under those conditions. You probably will want to make sure you add less than that to your makeshift boveda, so that it has room to absorb.

It's all in the dose.

A little NaOH (basic) and a little HCl are not dangerous, at low concentrations. And at these concentrations are probably in the food you eat.

[quote=victor809]

Maybe first try mixing the dry components and then put them in a sealed container with an open tub of water. See how much it absorbs under those conditions. You probably will want to make sure you add less than that to your makeshift boveda, so that it has room to absorb. [/quote]

I am tempted to try this next since I can't make it work in solution.

[quote=victor809]It's all in the dose.

A little NaOH (basic) and a little HCl are not dangerous, at low concentrations. And at these concentrations are probably in the food you eat. [/quote]

Forgive me if I am confusing things here (I am googling all of these since I do not know the abbreviations and periodic tables) but we're talking about hydrogen chloride (which would be in a gas state if heating)?

[quote]Hydrogen chloride forms corrosive hydrochloric acid on contact with water found in body tissue. Inhalation of the fumes can cause coughing, choking, inflammation of the nose, throat, and upper respiratory tract, and in severe cases, pulmonary edema, circulatory system failure, and death. Skin contact can cause redness, pain, and severe skin burns. Hydrogen chloride may cause severe burns to the eye and permanent eye damage.[/quote]

Not stuff I want to play with in any amount.

Either way, I want to wrap my personal experiments up and start a "DIY Boveda (with caveats) thread. I am going to abandon the Ammonium Chloride for the time being and quickly figure out 2 batches of 65% that are (sodium chloride+sugar) and (sodium chloride+magnesium chloride). This should limit the requirements of DIYer's to:

1. Must have a food scale to measure things in grams.

2. Must have table salt and sugar OR:

3. Must have table salt and magnesium chloride (magnesium chloride being used in salt baths for aches and pains but also kid/pet friendly)

4. You buy cigars from cigarbid and have the air pillow packing materials used as a ONE WAY vapor barrier

5. Have a foodsaver or similar to seal these air pillows.

I got the 69-70% range covered with the above mentioned chemicals since 70% is what a lot of people obsess about even if its not recommended. Once I lock down 64-65% I will post the new thread and ask people to suggest different target RH for me to work on.

If people care enough, they can test the mixes in other packaging material and come up with other options. Something two-way would be preferred and I intend to get my hands on Tyvek and Hytrel once I stop spending so much money on cigars in the future (wonder if anyone stops spending money on cigars?).

[quote=Tittums]I am tempted to try this next since I can't make it work in solution.[/quote] I would be interested in the results

[quote]

Forgive me if I am confusing things here (I am googling all of these since I do not know the abbreviations and periodic tables) but we're talking about hydrogen chloride (which would be in a gas state if heating)?

Not stuff I want to play with in any amount[/quote]

Yes and no. Everything is in equilibrium. HCl gas becomes Hydrochloric Acid when it interacts with water vapor (which we'd assume there is plenty of). You'll probably recognize hydrochloric acid... that's the acid that's in your stomach. Again, at low concentrations it's harmless. We're dealing with very small amounts here. Heck, there is probably some HCl in gaseous form in the air you breathe at a pool that's chlorinated.

These are all at very low levels, way too low to be harmful.

However, I mention them because our sense of smell (and taste) are much more sensitive. And small amounts of ammonia or chlorine can impact cigar flavor much more I think than they can damage you.

[quote=Tittums]

Test Batch 5 ():

*10.78 gram vessel*

3G Water

4G Ammonium Chloride

1G Sodium Chloride

3G Vegetable Glycerine

[/quote]

I didn't bother with a new mix last night so this sat overnight and is now reading 63% oddly enough so I guess I am going to keep playing with it.

[quote=Tittums]I just put an inflated pillow in a glass of water and am using the 100G weight that came with my scale to calibrate it to force it partially underwater. I can't test reversing it at the moment as my hygrometers are in use testing different salt mixes.

[/quote]

This did not work, there is no water in the bag so I am going to try turning it inside out then sealing it and doing the same thing. If it were a Boveda it would be oversaturated with water.

[quote=Tittums]

This did not work, there is no water in the bag so I am going to try turning it inside out then sealing it and doing the same thing. If it were a Boveda it would be oversaturated with water.[/quote]

I don't think this would work.

Water is not equal to water vapor

I wouldn't expect water in liquid form to pass through plastic (possibly not even through a boveda, although I don't know what that's made of exactly)... by submerging your plastic bag you are ensuring it isn't in any contact with water vapor at all, only liquid water.

Honestly, I wouldn't expect a lot of vapor transfer to an empty bag either, even if it's in a high humidity container. I would expect you would need some dessicant inside that bag to provide the difference in water vapor between the two sides

[quote=victor809]I don't think this would work.

Water is not equal to water vapor

I wouldn't expect water in liquid form to pass through plastic (possibly not even through a boveda, although I don't know what that's made of exactly)... by submerging your plastic bag you are ensuring it isn't in any contact with water vapor at all, only liquid water.

Honestly, I wouldn't expect a lot of vapor transfer to an empty bag either, even if it's in a high humidity container. I would expect you would need some dessicant inside that bag to provide the difference in water vapor between the two sides[/quote]

Well I know you can oversaturate Boveda packs (I purposely dried one completely out then submerged it and it got way bigger and had to release a lot of water before it was releasing the set amount)

In their patents, they always reference Hytrel in their proof of concept for releasing the correct amount of humidity as well as absorbing excess humidity so that's the stuff I really want to test if I can find it in thin sheets.

https://www.dupont.com/products/hytrel.html 

Added 2 more grams of water to the current mix and its slowly up to 65 now and I think it will go over but I can bring that backdown. Despite 70% not being suggested some people consider it a silly gold standard so what should I focus on (for cigars) besides 70% and 65%?