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teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#21

I no longer believe that. Not from casual contact at least.

We had a kid came down with it in the plant. He was in contact with almost everyone on that shift every night. If it were that contagious we should have lost that entire shift. We didn't. They immediately started screening folks coming in and we've had no more issues other than that one kid. He was in the habit of going to Chicago every weekend to hang with family.

Prolonged close contact with someone infected sure. That makes sense given Danm's observations on the initial front loading being the determining factor in severity. I'll buy that. Hence the cities getting hammered and fly over country not so much.

I wouldn't be swapping spit with strangers but with the increased sanitation awareness I'm honestly not as concerned as I was a month ago. Not here.

Meh. The depression is going to suck way worse if we keep this up. No freaking joke. 😣

USNGunner wrote:

The problem is that scenario doesn't prove anything. First of it all has everyone been tested repeatedly for a couple weeks? Symptoms don't mean much when the asymptomatic spread is what it is. Secondly what stage of the disease was he in and when. Where did he get it? Were there any precautions in place at all? Were folks washing hands, wearing masks etc. What number of people was he closer than 6 feet to and unprotected Etc.

We are finding it is MORE contagious than first thought but it isn't as if this dude shows up at the plant and all over the next few weeks the refrigeration trucks get filled. Going on symptoms is meaningless. We need the tests. By the time you figure out it is rampant in your area it will be too late going by what I see. It's creeper weed LOL

I am curious how many folks we are talking about had contact with him and how many have been tested.

Edited by user 6 years ago | Reason: Not specified

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#22

As for the political argument I think we need to open up but do so carefully. We are suffering the cost of mitigation. Wouldn't it be a shame to also suffer the cost of not mitigating this thing because people start considering it more theoretical than real. All the cost, none of the benefit.

HockeyDad
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#23

If it were 2 dead out of 100 that would be bad.

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#24

depends who they are. if we can choose it is totally acceptable.

MACS
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#25

Sweden never locked down. How are they doing now? I realize all things are not equal, but it would be an interesting contrast.

HockeyDad
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#26

If Sweden locked down we would discover they all have brown hair.

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#27

Why do folks always bring up Sweden who has a higher death rate from this than all of their neighbors and the jury is still out on their results but they ignore the UK experience with trying the same thing with disastrous results (our experience as well come to think of it) and ignore the New Zealand experience.

I can trace it to a narrative among certain entertainment news outlets rather than combing through the data in any meaningful way.

Edited by user 6 years ago | Reason: Not specified

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#28

ok I just did the same thing LOL. I don't know why folks fixate on Sweden. it could be because they are looking at the epidemiological data rather than repeating something they heard.

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#29

I also think Sweden is practicing some form of social distancing and do have some restrictions in place. And they are socialists. Hot socialists but socialists.

Just to continue news based discussion of the topic.... why isn't this discussed more than Sweden who is the darling of some media outlets as was poor Boris until it failed. Remember the same outlets pushed malaria drugs.... what do you have to lose.... its an interview on Ingram... why would they lie? etc.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/27/845304917/new-zealand-says-it-has-won-battle-against-covid-19

Edit: Caveat.... screw Sweden and New Zealand I have no idea what is really going on there nor do you regardless of what the networks are telling us to think.

Edited by user 6 years ago | Reason: Not specified

delta1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#30

who are you gonna believe?

the conservative media is promoting what would be best for businesses and corporate interests, without regard for the working people upon whom many of those businesses rely for their work forces...their advocacy does not include data from educated medical experts and practitioners ...and seems to avoid the actual human toll this pandemic has caused, in just the opening round...

hardly ever see any epidemiologist, emergency medical practitioners, public health experts or scientists who've studied pandemics in conservative media advocating for business as usual...only conservative economists, aligned with industry, and political opinion generators and shapers...they all tout their anti government, anti science, anti social contracts beliefs...it is this pro personal liberty and freedom and let everyone fend for themselves philosophy which allows big business and corporate interests to thrive and prosper...

then the media on the left seem to have a glut of gloom and doom scientists, public health experts, epidemiologists, emergency medical practitioners, and give constant updates on the numbers of infected people and the deaths, and all the bad things the virus does to the human body if you're lucky to survive...all from the perspective that we as a society are in this together and can better protect each individual if we band together and do what is in the interests of the society...barely acknowledging the disastrous effect on businesses and corporate interests...

who do you believe? those who care about businesses....... or those who care about people's health?

Edited by user 6 years ago | Reason: Not specified

HockeyDad
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#31

teedubbya wrote:

We aren’t suffering the cost of mitigation. Just some people are. 15% unemployment still means 85% working.

The cost of mitigation is real to some. The benefit of mitigation is theoretical. People still go to work. People still shop. The Wuham is still spreading just maybe not as fast. Maybe.

MACS
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#32

Sweden is not socialist.

I was bringing up Sweden as a means to contrast because they did not lock everyone in their houses. I was asking a question rather than making a statement, as I have not followed how they have fared with letting people be free to make their own decisions.

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#33

Where I ride the fencepost delta is I do think we need to open up and I don't think there is a perfect risk free time to do it. Thus we need to determine risk and decide off that. But the push is minimize or legitimize the very real risk. The virus risk is very real, it is no flu, it is much more contagious than anything in my lifetime, appears to be more contagious than we thought, and it is brutal. We don't need to downplay that we should be honest about it in our decision making. The effort to dilute this thing is dangerous.

I think we went to far on some things and we can ease up on others. And we need to take risks. We cant stay like this much longer. But we should do so with reality and real information not the blitz to gloss over the facts.

A good negotiation or decision tree establishes facts rather than trying to blur them prior to making decisions.

Edited by user 6 years ago | Reason: Not specified

tonygraz
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#34

Keep in mind that the Swedes are healthier as a nation than we are.

MACS
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#35

https://tinyurl.com/y8oyvehy

** is it a coincidence that the tinyurl maker ended this url in oy vehy?

Edited by user 6 years ago | Reason: Not specified

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#36

MACS wrote:

I was joking. Bad sarcasm. They are still hot though right?

I shouldn't have directed that at you MACS. But why did you choose Sweden? Where did you hear about them and what did you here?

Just bustin on ya. Did you read the NZ piece. They clamped down.

HockeyDad
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#37

F&$k the Swedes!

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#38

teedubbya wrote:

They appear the be "voluntarily" social distancing. Surveys apparently put public transportation at a reduction, and people are self reporting that they stay 1M apart. The numbers don't appear to be going up for them, but they also aren't going down. Time will only tell if that was a good decision or not.

Numbers say their infection rate (per MM) isn't particularly good or bad. Their fatalities are higher, and reports are they are only testing people who show severe symptoms (this would account for higher fatality rate).

No one knows. They certainly aren't really any closer to herd immunity than anyone else... even with reduced testing they are only running about 2k cases/1MM people. Double that... triple that... multiply it by 10... whatever you want to it, you're not near herd immunity.

MACS
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#39

I had just heard that Sweden did not lock down and that their epidemiologists were focusing more on sheltering the at risk and developing herd immunity.

They do still have some restrictions, no groups of more than 50 being one of them. Schools, bars and restaurants still open.

teedubbya
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#40

HockeyDad wrote:

Either way we get to potentially experience both if we open too soon. The only way to avoid that would have been to not make the original decision.

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