bgz
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6 years ago

A true atheist would insist that nothing happens. You die. It's over. End of story.
You've left a door open here.
Was it on purpose, or subconsciously?

tailgater wrote:



I believe I'm classified as an agnostic atheist by those who make the labels... but make no mistake, an atheist I am.
Dg west deptford
6 years ago
^ is all that absurdity absolutely true?
I could give you great evidence for God. The peer reviewed science coming out of the institute for creation research (www.icr.org)is awesome! But if I give you evidence I elevate you to the position of Judge and who's on trial? The Lord of Glory. So I won't give you evidence for something you already know but deny because you don't want to be accountable to a Holy, loving Creator.
Please remember I'm not promoting religion, putting anyone down or trying to present myself as someone who's attained perfection. Rather I'm encouraging faith and using logic and reason to do so. As well as trying to share my experience with a Holy, Loving Saviour who while "He spans the universe with his hand" "He knows how many hairs are on my head."
I know what happens after death with absolute certainty just like everyone else. I just no longer deny it. As someone who openly drinks far too much, smokes too much, gamble's, spends far too much money on cigars and wastes far too much time on this forum, to name a few of my obvious fleshly indulgences. I expect we have much more in common than you may think. As I've been given this ministry of reconciliation I'm just trying to do my part. You see the love of God has been shed abroad in my heart for you. As the psalmist says "taste and see the Lord is Good!" "There's pleasures for evermore at His right hand." "Eternity has been placed in your hearts." Don't show up to the Judgement seat without a Mediator is all I'm saying. Be reconciled with God today! All it takes is a little faith, humility & repentance.
Shalom!
bgz
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6 years ago
I get it Dg... I do. I remember when my grandma found out I'm an atheist, she was astonished. Then our family friend and former Episcopal priest (Father Bill... RIP my friend) wasn't too thrilled when he found out, but he understood.

Problem is when you get to my level of understanding of science, religion is no longer compatible with your world view.

It really is that simple.
frankj1
6 years ago

The official meeting of the Republican National Convention (RNC) delegates Monday morning emphasized the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance after a committee and a caucus meeting omitted the words from the pledge during the Democratic National Convention (DNC).


The omission of "under God" from the two relatively minor events sparked a backlash from Republicans, including President Trump, and a flurry of fact-checks pointing out that in the four major broadcasts each night Democrats did use the words "under God." But Republicans have still said the omission by the individual speakers -- there was no party directive on the words -- in the two meetings represents a disrespect Democrats have for people of faith.

"Two Democrat Caucus Meetings removed 'UNDER GOD' from the Pledge of Allegiance. It sounded not only strange, but terrible. That’s where they’re coming from!" Trump tweeted Sunday.

"At the Democrat National Convention, we know that at least two caucuses removed two words -- "under God" -- from the Pledge of Allegiance. We know too that at a previous Democrat convention, a recent one, the word "God" was almost totally removed from their platform. That could not, would not, ever happen here," Peter Goldberg, a delegate from Alaska, said to applause at Republicans' Monday morning meeting before leading the pledge.

"We know as Republicans that America must put its full trust and faith in that God, in order to do so so that every American citizen can have the blessings of security, the opportunity for prosperity and the ability to enjoy all of those freedoms that are enshrined in that divinely inspired document the Constitution of the United States of America."


Film at 11.... 😟

DrafterX wrote:


so a couple of Dems dropped Under God.

and it just sounded so wrong?

Those two words were added in the mid fifties! They sounded weird for a while too.
The idea of a pledge to a flag is also a little commie style too...
Dg west deptford
6 years ago

I get it Dg... I do. I remember when my grandma found out I'm an atheist, she was astonished. Then our family friend and former Episcopal priest (Father Bill... RIP my friend) wasn't too thrilled when he found out, but he understood.

Problem is when you get to my level of understanding of science, religion is no longer compatible with your world view.

It really is that simple.

bgz wrote:



Bgz, sincerely curious about " your level of understanding of science"
Do you believe absolute truth exists?
(absolute truth: that Which is true for all people all the time)
bgz
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6 years ago
Good point frank, I never thought about how much of a commie practice the pledge of allegiance is.

Now I'm kind of questioning the validity of it...

Thanks frank 😜
delta1
6 years ago
in earlier times, we were expected to raise our right arm, palm down, towards the flag, after reciting the pledge...that was stopped when we saw too much of the Nazi salute in that part of the ritual

original pledge did not include "under God"
bgz
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6 years ago

Bgz, sincerely curious about " your level of understanding of science"
Do you believe absolute truth exists?
(absolute truth: that Which is true for all people all the time)

Dg west deptford wrote:



I believe there are truths that are objectively true to all observers relative to a timeline.

You want to hear something weird that I believe in?

If you pass a million electrons through a box that detects whether they are white or black and splits them up accordingly, you will get about a 50/50 split of each color.

Lets say you take all the black electrons and pass them through a hardness detector which splits them up by whether they are soft or hard, about a 50/50 split of those too.

So lets say you take one of those arbitrary sets, for our case we'll take the soft electrons (doesn't matter which one you pick). Now let's pass them through the color detector again...

I believe you'll end up with about 125000 black electrons.
Dg west deptford
6 years ago
Excellent, so you know some things to be true to all people everywhere all the time.
Knowledge: justified true belief
Do you believe logic exists?
Dg west deptford
6 years ago
An example of a law of logic is the law of non-contradiction. This law states, for instance, that it cannot both be true that my car is in the parking lot and that it is not in the parking lot at the same time, and in the same way.
bgz
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6 years ago

Excellent, so you know some things to be true to all people everywhere all the time.

Dg west deptford wrote:



I didn't say that... in fact... I said nothing close to that.
bgz
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6 years ago

An example of a law of logic is the law of non-contradiction. This law states, for instance, that it cannot both be true that my car is in the parking lot and that it is not in the parking lot at the same time, and in the same way.

Dg west deptford wrote:



I would argue that it is in fact possible for your car to exist in a parking spot and not in a parking spot at the same time if it was in a state of superposition relative to an external observer.
Dg west deptford
6 years ago
you have acknowledged that there is absolute truth, that you know some things to be true but you don't believe in logic? Or do you believe that logic isn't universal and that it's person relative?
bgz
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6 years ago
I've acknowledged that there are objective, verifiable facts that we can agree on as mutual observers of our timeline... for your example, if your car was observed in a parking spot at 2:00pm today, then it is objectively true to all observing parties.

However, if you had a completely isolated parking lot, and you have the choice to park in two spots... left or right.

Then you pick one, then for the sake of argument... have a heart attack and die before you can tell anyone.

How do we know which one you picked? We look, and observe it... we saw you chose the left parking spot.

If we were to go back in time (assuming it were possible to do as much), to the point right before we looked... then we looked again.

Now, lets say we did this over and over and over again until you showed up in the right spot, do you think the loop would be infinite?
frankj1
6 years ago

in earlier times, we were expected to raise our right arm, palm down, towards the flag, after reciting the pledge...that was stopped when we saw too much of the Nazi salute in that part of the ritual

original pledge did not include "under God"

delta1 wrote:


added in 1954 I think. first version from late 19th century.
Didn't become everyday expected until 1940s or so, when the world was stressed out.
bgz
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6 years ago
This concept will blow your mind even further... if we were to time travel back to right before the observation.

Would you still be dead?
Dg west deptford
6 years ago
If you believe that logic is relative, then you don’t believe in any science. If logic does not apply universally, then it does not necessarily apply to your current stated worldview and you could be wrong about everything you think you know.
Moreover you would have no problem with any contradiction to what you think you know.
bgz
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6 years ago
I think you need to read, and re-read everything I wrote. It pretty much lays out what I "believe".

I'm pretty sure you believe in fate.

Fate is not compatible with the way I view the world.
Dg west deptford
6 years ago
Truth is I already know you believe in universal logic so let's skip that and move onto
Do you believe logic changes?
Keep in mind that the question is not whether or not our perception of logic changes, but whether or not logic itself can change. If you believe that logic changes, then for all you know logic has changed and contradictions are now valid.
bgz
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6 years ago

Truth is I already know you believe in universal logic so let's skip that and move onto
Do you believe logic changes?
Keep in mind that the question is not whether or not our perception of logic changes, but whether or not logic itself can change. If you believe that logic changes, then for all you know logic has changed and contradictions are now valid.

Dg west deptford wrote:



Before you go any further on this quest of yours, you should know that "logic" is quite literally my day job.

With the context that you are using the term logic... I'm not sure if your definition of it is tight enough for you and I to have a conversation on the subject.
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