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Brewha
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#421

If it's a pattern, then what planned the pattern? And where did the elements come from that made the salt compounds that grew into a crystalline structure under the right environmental conditions?
Go ask Victor, he even knows what came first, the chicken or the egg.

RayR wrote:

I suppose from your perspective God created and oversees every aspect of reality.
And you are free to see it that way. That’s just the way it is.

Just seems like a cop out to me.

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#422

which/who came first, God or the egg?

delta1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#423

if God wanted us to know, we woulda gotten the message

frankj1
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#424

if God wanted us to know, we woulda gotten the message

delta1 wrote:

if only we still spoke Aramaic

HockeyDad
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#425

Is this the new 500 thread?

CelticBomber
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#426

RayR wrote:

Why do you think a pattern has to be planned? A pattern is just noticing a predictive order coalescing out of chaos. Nothing more.

The egg(s) came first.

The elements formed when the universe cooled enough to form atoms and then more complex molecules. How did we get something from nothing? Who says nothing ever existed?

People assume the big bang was the beginning of the universe. It wasn't. It was a beginning. A shift from energy to entropy. For all anyone knows this is a cycle that has always been and always will be. It's simply an idea that we can't really conceptualize because we lack perspective.

When I was 4 the world told me that Santa Claus was real. I even had evidence to back the belief up. I woke up on Christmas day and sure enough, presents! At 4 I had more tangible evidence for Santa than you do now for which ever God you subscribe too. The only difference between you and I is that I grew up.

Dg west deptford
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#427

Well, Bgz, I prefer to get you to first admit you believe in universal unchanging logic before I move you to the next and final step. Because if you don't believe in logic and reason I can't use logic and reason to persuade you you are even reading this let alone any higher thoughts of any sort.
So don't be scared go on the record. We stopped at trying to assign an agreeable definition of logic and I offered a few definitions for your assessment.
I promise we're very close to wrapping this apologetic up.

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#428

Well, assume I do "believe" in your logic, then go from there. If you think you can prove logically that what ever it is you're trying to convince me of (forgot at this point)... then convince me!

God, I still have nightmares about some of those proofs in college... they were hell.

I forget, do evangelicals believe in purgatory? If not this might be a rough read. I would like to see you work it in to your proof if at all possible.

Dg west deptford
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#429

It can't be my logic b it has to be everyone's everywhere all the time. Because that's the WE live in.

Dg west deptford
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#430

^World we live in

CelticBomber
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#431

It can't be my logic b it has to be everyone's everywhere all the time. Because that's the WE live in.

Dg west deptford wrote:

If that were true in any way, shape or form we'd all think alike. Logically, since it's obvious from just this thread alone that we don't all use the same logic I'd have to assume that either A) You're trying to create a specific logic trap that will prove your own bias to you, regardless if you convinced BGZ to your way of thinking or not or 😎 Some of us are born with more tools in the shed than others..... biased in my favor of course. I'll leave it to you to use this "Universal" logic that you allude too, to determine which answer I lean towards.

P.S. The answer is C) All of the above.

Dg west deptford
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#432

^ is that absolutely true CB?
Is the logic your using universal and unchanging?

rfenst
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#433

... Some of us are born with more tools in the shed than others..... biased in my favor of course.

CelticBomber wrote:

LOL.
That's some funny chit.

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#434

It can't be my logic b it has to be everyone's everywhere all the time. Because that's the WE live in.

Dg west deptford wrote:

Spit your game already, let's hear the pitch.

In the words of the giant head thing on Rick and Morty...

Show me what you got.

Edited by user 6 years ago | Reason: Not specified

CelticBomber
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#435

If that were true in any way, shape or form we'd all think alike.

Celtic Bomber wrote:

^ is that absolutely true CB?
Is the logic your using universal and unchanging?

Dg west deptford wrote:

You're obviously not a reader.

DrMaddVibe
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#436

Wubba-lubba-dub-dub!

[whip]

tonygraz
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#437

As far as which came first we should consult our in-house expert on all things chicken, Drafter.

Dg west deptford
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#438

b, I don't need to assume you believe in universal unchanging logic. I already KNOW you do. But it's just so good to admit it out loud in front of witnesses. Sometimes you have to rescue the mind from absurdity before one can receive truth
You've already professed faith in the existence of Absolute truth & that you KNOW some things to be true. Which is the beginning of a great foundation. You're so close! If you could just confess faith in logic then I could ask the final question

victor809
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#439

That's easy. the rooster.
But seriously where are we at with Darwin since he stated that if we ever find irreducible complexity then his theory would be wrong.
As I'm sure you smarty-pants know relatively recent developments in microbiology have indeed uncovered a tremendous amount of irreducible complexity in everything

Dg west deptford wrote:

I just wanted to point out that this is nonsense. The idea of "irreducible complexity" as being a proof against evolution is nonsense, and the idea that a system is too irreducibly complex to have evolved is nonsense.

Dg west deptford
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#440

It was too hot for a smoke so Tony, Celtic & I decided to take the tandom bike for a ride to the sun to cool off (Tony rode b!tch and cb sat on his lap). When we got to the surface of the sun Celtic pulled 3 lawn chairs out of his new OpftH shirt pocket, Tony pulled 3 fine tubos out of his OpftH shirt pocket (an LP no.9, A 1926 no.90 and a vintage Davidoff) & handed them out to us. As we sat on the sun puffing away we heard Diamond Dave coming up with an ice cream cart singing "I'm your ice cream man" so we stopped him as he was passing by and I treated the boys (Tony had a Dixie cup, CB had a push-up. I had a banana boat) Just then Rick & Morty stroll by asking if we were there for Gurkfest. Tony was insulted & said something that pissed off Rick because he gave us all the finger. After our smokes &ice cream I pulled 3 surf boards out my OpftH shirt pocket & we surfed the cooling corona mass ejections before a leisurely ride back to earth.
Now if after that story you were to say " come on D that's not logical the whole universe knows Tony doesn't smoke those cigars"
I'd then say "Huzzah!" So is logic material (made of matter) or immaterial?
Take your time answering and I'll get back to this after work.

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