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CelticBomber
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#461

Native actually.

bgz wrote:

See! It's worse than we thought. He'll cut you until he has a new wig!

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#462

Damn straight!

Dg west deptford
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#463

Change of evening plans so I'm available for general time wasting-
I don't believe logic is God & that's not where I was going but I can understand your fear that I was going there because it is obviously strong evidence for God.

Truth, knowledge, and logic are all necessary to prove anything, & you assumed & admitted to nearly all of them.
While you may try to account for truth, knowledge & logic without God, it's quite easy to expose your inability to do so & the Christian’s justification for them with God. But you quit.

While this proof is a valid “transcendental” proof (i.e. one that deals in necessary preconditions), no one needs this proof. The Bible teaches us that there are 2 types of people in this world, those who profess the truth of God’s existence & those who suppress the truth of God’s existence. The options of ‘seeking’ God, or not believing in God are unavailable. The Bible never attempts to prove the existence of God as it declares that those who deny Him are “without excuse” for suppressing what He has already revealed to them.
Thanks for listening!

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#464

Dg west deptford wrote:

So the bible says that there's no excuse to not believe in the bible because the bible already revealed the truth?

So the subject of the definer is the definer therefore it has been defined.

Got it... pretty sure that's true for all indoctrination manuals.

CelticBomber
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#465

Dg west deptford wrote:

I know this statement sounds deep to you but, it makes no sense. Those three are all necessary and we assumed and admitted to them? Yeah, sure. What?

While you may try to account for truth, knowledge & logic without God, it's quite easy to expose your inability to do so & the Christian’s justification for them with God. But you quit.

Dg west deptford wrote:

It's quite easy and yet you failed to do so. Spectacularly. Ten pages and counting for this thread. One clear, concise post laying out your justification and "Viola, the trick, she is done!"

While this proof is a valid “transcendental” proof (i.e. one that deals in necessary preconditions), no one needs this proof. The Bible teaches us that there are 2 types of people in this world, those who profess the truth of God’s existence & those who suppress the truth of God’s existence. The options of ‘seeking’ God, or not believing in God are unavailable. The Bible never attempts to prove the existence of God as it declares that those who deny Him are “without excuse” for suppressing what He has already revealed to them.
Thanks for listening!

Dg west deptford wrote:

So is the bible meant to be taken literally or is it metaphor? Both maybe? Who decides which is which? You? Someone else? I mean, it's so obvious that all Christians agree on which is which right? Oh wait... which bible? Didn't the son of your God believe in the first one? But, you don't? You believe in part deux? Hmm. Do you claim God revealed more truth to you than he did to his own son? I sense danger ahead. Bail out while you can! Save yourself! You avoid the word faith and try to substitute for it with proof, truth and logic. It doesn't work. If you have faith, then have faith. Don't pussyfoot around it. Why care about logic or truth or proof if all you need is faith. You really wouldn't want someone like me to have faith. If I believed I'd believe hard. I'd burn the world to ash if that's what I believed my God wanted from me. Why does that sound familiar.... (flips back through the last few thousand years of history) Oh, right. Now I know why it sounds familiar.

Wow... you can understand if I fear... Here's the thing your ego won't let you see. I don't fear. I don't fear you. I don't fear your reasoning. I don't fear having my idea's challenged. Pay attention to the next bit because it's important. I don't fear being wrong or saying "I don't know".

Dg west deptford
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#466

I appreciate you CB. I love the old covenant! The Law & the prophets, the whole thing is AWESOME!!!!! God breathed & therefore perfectly perfect glorifying to God & has unlimited power to save those who read it in faith humility and repentance.
Jeremiah spoke clearly about the coming new covenant as did all the prophets and Moses so not sure where you got the ideas?
Faith is also not something I have a problem with AT ALL!
Why do you have a problem with truth & logic is the question?
We agree completely on being cool with admitting wrong or saying I don't know.
Please understand your use of the word fear and my use of the word may differ slightly in meaning.
My apologies for assuming basic word knowledge usage.

DrafterX
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#467

'Fear' also means respect... not just be afraid... 😟

Had to reread the previous posts.. but alot of people don't understand the phrase 'fear god'....

Edited by user 6 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Dg west deptford
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#468

Seems silly to explain but yeah if someone said I fear jaywalking across a busy 6 lane highway. You wouldn't come to the conclusion that they tremble with nightmares at the thought of it. But rather that they have a healthy working brain that is capable of employing logic & reason in a sensible way.
Thanks DrafterX & again my apologies for assuming. I'll try but can't promise to use more basic English.

tonygraz
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#469

The Singing bush didn't quote the bible to Moses..?? 😕

DrafterX wrote:

Which one of them sings ? Maybe Moses read lips.

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#470

The problem with assuming the premise of a circular "logic system" is you end up having to come up with crazier and crazier arguments to rationalize the next node in the circle.

Then when you put those nodes to paper... they end up looking like bullet point soup.

That's where faith comes in... you have to believe in the premise first, then come up with arguments.

That's why many Christian peoples arguments start with "The Bible says...".

Because they believe the premise to be true (their religion is correct), it follows logically that the words in the official texts are true, therefore it's passages can be used as evidence to show that the premise is true (their religion is correct).

Bad logic.

DrafterX
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#471

The Bible could be credited for most of our basic laws... whether you believe in God or not it's still not a bad way to live... 😟

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#472

Laws, like the thou shalt not be a d*ck and all that? (Bad Carlin Reference)

I'll admit, a lot of good came of religion.

Our calendar is pretty good... little weird, but it works.

Christmas is fun... kids love Christmas.

Pretty sure it was bad to kill, steal, f*ck your buddies' wives, etc... long before the Bible was written.

Dg west deptford
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#473

The Augustine calendar as well as the holidays you know are pagan.
The Hebrew is much better the Hebrew holidays are AWESOME!

DrafterX
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#474

Pretty sure it was bad to f*ck your buddies' wives

bgz wrote:

That's a bad thing..?? 😱

Dg west deptford
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#475

That's where faith comes in... you have to believe in the premise first, then come up with arguments.

That's why many Christian peoples arguments start with "The Bible says...".

Because they believe the premise to be true (their religion is correct), it follows logically that the words in the official texts are true, therefore it's passages can be used as evidence to show that the premise is true (their religion is correct).

Bad logic.

bgz wrote:

Religion & the Bible are mutually exclusive things. But YES the Word of God is Truth. and the fear of God is the foundation of all knowledge.
Religion you can toss with your wives used menstrual rags. That's what the Bible says.

Some people argue that faith takes over where reason leaves off. This is not so with Christian faith. Reason requires a foundation, which only the Bible can provide. There are only 2 choices, either we try to reason our way TO the truth of the Bible or we reason FROM the truth of the Bible. The first choice attempts to arrive at belief, without justification for the tools of reasoning, the second takes the Bible as the foundation for truth and the justification for all reasoning.

Faith is not without reason. Faith is not above reason, or contrary to reason. In fact faith is demanded by reason. Everyone starts from faith, but not all admit it. Professed unbelievers say that they use reason as their starting point and not faith. We must ask though, what is their reason for trusting reason? The thing is, they don’t have a reason for trusting reason, they have a ‘blind faith’ in reason.

Everyone starts from faith. The question is not whether we start from faith but whether we will place that faith in God or in man.

The faith of the professed unbeliever cannot give a reason for reason. Christian faith on the other hand is the basis for all knowledge. The Bible teaches that “All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Christ.” (2 Colossians vs. 3), and that “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.” (Proverbs 1 vs. 7)

Christian faith is not blind, rather it is the pre-condition for rational thought.

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#476

Religion & the Bible are mutually exclusive things. But YES the Word of God is Truth. and the fear of God is the foundation of all knowledge.
Religion you can toss with your wives used menstrual rags. That's what the Bible says.

You do know you made the statement that you can only have the Bible or religion, but not both.. you just made the claim that Christianity is not a religion... *scratches head* ... there's only one other thing it can be, lol.

Some people argue that faith takes over where reason leaves off. This is not so with Christian faith. Reason requires a foundation, which only the Bible can provide. There are only 2 choices, either we try to reason our way TO the truth of the Bible or we reason FROM the truth of the Bible. The first choice attempts to arrive at belief, without justification for the tools of reasoning, the second takes the Bible as the foundation for truth and the justification for all reasoning.

I'm taking notes... If I ever start a religion, make sure my subjects put faith before reason... k, got it, good stuff.

Faith is not without reason. Faith is not above reason, or contrary to reason. In fact faith is demanded by reason. Everyone starts from faith, but not all admit it. Professed unbelievers say that they use reason as their starting point and not faith. We must ask though, what is their reason for trusting reason? The thing is, they don’t have a reason for trusting reason, they have a ‘blind faith’ in reason.

Ok, ... you lost me...

I'm not even going to try to decipher that sh*t. It does appear you are preferring the former, which directly contradicts your previous paragraph... so I'm going to have to disagree with you. I would prefer my subjects to have "blind faith".

Everyone starts from faith. The question is not whether we start from faith but whether we will place that faith in God or in man.

Man... it takes generations to build up that indoctrination thing... I'm thinking in this day in age there's easier ways to make money.

The faith of the professed unbeliever cannot give a reason for reason. huh? Christian faith on the other hand is the basis for all knowledge That's a pretty bold claim there buddy.. The Bible teaches that “All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Christ.” (2 Colossians vs. 3), and that “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.” (Proverbs 1 vs. 7)

See my post above on bad logic

Christian faith is not blind, rather it is the pre-condition for rational thought.

Dg west deptford wrote:

Bad Logic

CelticBomber
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#477

Why do you have a problem with truth & logic is the question?

Dg west deptford wrote:

This is where you mess up. I don't have a problem with either. Never claimed too. You need better bait. Obvious troll is, well, obvious;-)

RayR
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#478

Bad Logic

bgz wrote:

Tremendous argument there bgz. Most impressive. One of Progressivism's favorite retorts.

CelticBomber
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#479

Tremendous argument there bgz. Most impressive. One of Progressivism's favorite retorts.

RayR wrote:

If the retort fits, wear it.

bgz
Herf-A-Holic

6 years ago

#480

Tremendous argument there bgz. Most impressive. One of Progressivism's favorite retorts.

RayR wrote:

Difference is RayRay, I described why it's bad... just because all you can see is "bad logic", not my problem.

The problem is, knowing how you generalize people, and how you only seem to be able to deal in absolutes... I will never, ever be able to take anything you say seriously. Not just on this topic, but any topic.

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