rfenst
  • rfenst
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
3 years ago

Opinion NYT
The resurgence of Donald Trump in the 2024 primary polls, the unsurprising evidence that his supporters will stand by him through a prosecution, and the tentativeness of Ron DeSantis’s pre-campaign have combined to create a buzz that maybe DeSantis shouldn’t run at all. It’s been whispered by nervous donors, shouted by Trump’s supporters and lately raised by pundits of the left and right.

Thus the liberal Bill Scher, writing in The Washington Monthly, argues that Trump looks too strong, that there isn’t a clear-enough constituency for DeSantis’s promise of Trumpism without the florid drama, and that if DeSantis runs and fails, he’s more likely to end up “viciously humiliated,” like Trump’s 2016 rivals, than to set himself up as the next in line for 2028.

Then from the right, writing for The Spectator, Daniel McCarthy channels Niccolò Machiavelli to argue that while DeSantis probably will run, he would be wiser to choose a more dogged, long-term path instead — emphasizing “virtu” rather than chasing Fortune, to use Machiavelli’s language. In 2024 Trump might poison the prospects of any G.O.P. candidate who beats him, while Joe Biden could be a relatively potent incumbent. But if the Florida governor continues to build a record of conservative accomplishment in his home state, “2028 would offer a well-prepared DeSantis a clear shot.”

I think they’re both wrong, and that if DeSantis has presidential ambitions he simply has to run right now, notwithstanding all of the obstacles that they identify. My reasoning depends both on the “Fortune” that McCarthy invokes and on an argument that Scher’s piece nods to while rejecting: the idea that presidential candidates are more likely to miss their moment — as Chris Christie did when he passed on running in 2012, as Mario Cuomo did for his entire career — than they are to run too early and suffer a career-ending rebuke.

It’s true that fortune doesn’t always favor the bold. (As McCarthy notes, that phrase originates in Virgil’s “Aeneid,” where it’s uttered by an Italian warlord just before he gets killed.) But the key to the don’t-miss-your-moment argument is that when it comes to something as difficult as gaining the presidency, mostly fortune doesn’t favor anybody. Every would-be president, no matter their virtues as a politician, is inevitably a hostage to events, depending on unusual synchronicities to open a path to the White House.

A great many successful political careers never have that path open at all. A minority have it open in the narrowest way, where you can imagine threading needles and rolling lucky sixes all the way to the White House. Only a tiny number are confronted with a situation where they seem to have a strong chance, not just a long-shot possibility, before they even announce their candidacy.

That’s where DeSantis sits right now. The political betting site PredictIt places his odds of being president in 2024, expressed as a share price, at 23 cents, slightly below Trump and well below Biden, but far above everybody else. Those odds, representing a roughly 20 percent chance at the White House, sound about right to me. If you look at national polls since Trump’s indictment, DeSantis’s support has dipped only slightly; if you look at polls of early primary states he’s clearly within striking distance, Trump has a floor of support but also a lot of voters who aren’t eager to rally to him (his indictment may have solidified support, but it didn’t make his numbers soar) and DeSantis has not yet even begun to campaign. He’s in a much better position than any of Trump’s rivals ever were in 2016, and you could argue that he starts out closer to the nomination than any Republican candidate did in 2008 or 2012.

Not to run now is to throw this proximity away, in the hopes of starting out even closer four years hence. But DeSantis’s current position is itself a creation of unusual political good fortune. Yes, he’s been skillful, but that skill wouldn’t have gotten him here without events beyond anyone’s control — the Covid-19 pandemic, the woke revolution in liberal institutions, the split between Mike Pence and Trump after Jan. 6, the strength of the Florida economy, and more.

It’s obviously possible to imagine a future where fortune continues to favor DeSantis and he goes into 2028 as the prohibitive favorite. But time and chance are cruel, and there are many more paths where events conspire against him, and he wakes up in 2027 staring at PredictIt odds of 5 percent instead.

If he were at 5 percent odds right now — if Trump were leading him 75-20 in New Hampshire and Iowa rather than roughly 40-30, or if Biden’s approval ratings stood at 70 percent instead of 43 percent — I would buy the argument for waiting.

But DeSantis today is a man already graced by Fortune. And even if the goddess doesn’t always favor boldness, she takes a stern view of those to whom favor is extended who then refuse the gift.
MrShelby
3 years ago
Loved this post - it's intelligent, level, and interesting... on a subject matter that, by it's very nature, gets beaten to death. Don't know if I'm genuinely looking forward to the 2024 race or wanting to avoid it for the ad infinitum chaos, chatter and volatility that comes with it. Regardless, great post!
DrMaddVibe
3 years ago
I really hope he doesn't!

The state needs him here.

He could do the "Obama" and take Rick Scott's seat and then run for POTUS.

THAT would be the smart play. Let them show their hands while Lefty thinks he's running. Don't get caught in the Trump train and sit back and laugh at it all.

He said while he was campaigning for his 2nd term as gov. that he wouldn't run. I can't imagine much changing except he's making bank.
DrMaddVibe
3 years ago

Loved this post - it's intelligent, level, and interesting... on a subject matter that, by it's very nature, gets beaten to death. Don't know if I'm genuinely looking forward to the 2024 race or wanting to avoid it for the ad infinitum chaos, chatter and volatility that comes with it. Regardless, great post!

MrShelby wrote:



Oh STFU...its a New York Times OP article. That rag has more blood on its hands than Chairman Mao!
MACS
3 years ago
Also could be titled... "Why the republicans need to forfeit the election by splitting their votes between 2 people that would crush Biden, otherwise".
rfenst
  • rfenst
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
3 years ago

I really hope he doesn't!

The state needs him here.

He could do the "Obama" and take Rick Scott's seat and then run for POTUS.

THAT would be the smart play. Let them show their hands while Lefty thinks he's running. Don't get caught in the Trump train and sit back and laugh at it all.

He said while he was campaigning for his 2nd term as gov. that he wouldn't run. I can't imagine much changing except he's making bank.

DrMaddVibe wrote:

. I agree that taking Rick Scott's job would be best for Desantis eventual run for presidency.
rfenst
  • rfenst
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
3 years ago

Oh STFU...its a New York Times OP article. That rag has more blood on its hands than Chairman Mao!

DrMaddVibe wrote:


Maybe reading opposing views you don't agree with would enlighten you and make your arguments stronger?
DrMaddVibe
3 years ago

Maybe reading opposing views you don't agree with would enlighten you and make your arguments stronger?

rfenst wrote:



Maybe if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump its ass when it hopped.
MACS
3 years ago

Maybe reading opposing views you don't agree with would enlighten you and make your arguments stronger?

rfenst wrote:



Today's "opposing views" come straight from folks who believe there are more than 2 genders, men can get pregnant and menstruate, children should be able to "transition" to another gender before they can vote or buy alcohol, and that America was founded on racism.

I'm sorry, Robert. I've had it up to my scalp with the ridiculous garbage that's been tolerated for far too long. The NYT and WAPO do nothing but perpetuate it. Reading anything from them makes my blood boil, and not because I disagree with it, but because I can see what they're trying to do to the country and communities I spent 33 years of my life trying to protect from it.

No. It's time rational people pushed back.
rfenst
  • rfenst
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
3 years ago

Today's "opposing views" come straight from folks who believe there are more than 2 genders, men can get pregnant and menstruate, children should be able to "transition" to another gender before they can vote or buy alcohol, and that America was founded on racism.

I'm sorry, Robert. I've had it up to my scalp with the ridiculous garbage that's been tolerated for far too long. The NYT and WAPO do nothing but perpetuate it. Reading anything from them makes my blood boil, and not because I disagree with it, but because I can see what they're trying to do to the country and communities I spent 33 years of my life trying to protect from it.

No. It's time rational people pushed back.

MACS wrote:


Ever consider they are often just publishing social norms norms or norms in flux, as well as opinion?

Kind of like two different kinds of dictionaries. One kind tells you the exact way words are supposed to be used. The other kind tells you how words are actually presently being used...

I respect that your opinions differ from mine.

And, that is where it should end unless the back and forth bothers either of us.
Brewha
3 years ago

Maybe reading opposing views you don't agree with would enlighten you and make your arguments stronger?

rfenst wrote:


No - we tried that with D...
Brewha
3 years ago
I agree that DeSantis has to run.

Trump was already thrashed in the last election and is a criminal POS. Meaning that not all republicans would vote for him.

Trouble with DeSantis is he is a gay hater, woman hater, sells and believes crazy shit. Worse, those that love him believe even more crazy shit.
HockeyDad
3 years ago

I agree that DeSantis has to run.

Trump was already thrashed in the last election and is a criminal POS. Meaning that not all republicans would vote for him.

Trouble with DeSantis is he is a gay hater, woman hater, sells and believes crazy shit. Worse, those that love him believe even more crazy shit.

Brewha wrote:



You forgot racist, misogynist, deplorable, and clings to his guns and bibles.
MACS
3 years ago
Yeah... Biden, the big guy, and his kid aren't POS criminals... it's Trump.

And simply because of a Soros bought DA that is okay letting murderers off the hook, but needed a little fancy work to have Trump indicted on some, ahem... Trumped up BS.

I just shake my head in disbelief at some of the absolute ignoramuses that are allowed to vote. Baffling.
Brewha
3 years ago

You forgot racist, misogynist, deplorable, and clings to his guns and bibles.

HockeyDad wrote:


Thank you HD, But I did not want to play Capt. Obvious.

In fairness - I did cover misogyny.
Brewha
3 years ago



I just shake my head in disbelief at some of the absolute ignoramuses that are allowed to vote. Baffling.

MACS wrote:



At last we agree!!!
Brewha
3 years ago
I think the elephant in the room is, where are they going to find enough knuckle draggers to get Trump the RNC nomination - so he can loose?

Florida?
Whistlebritches
3 years ago



Trouble with DeSantis is he is a gay hater, woman hater, sells and believes crazy shit. Worse, those that love him believe even more crazy shit.

Brewha wrote:




Just more proof that hardcore liberals have deep psychological issues.How's the weather in fantasy land Brew?
RayR
3 years ago
Ya Brew, how's dat fantasy land? I hear it's still full of slogans, platitudes, and disinformation.

It has always been a primary strategy of the left to expand the population of absolute ignoramuses who can vote.
Brewha
3 years ago

Just more proof that hardcore liberals have deep psychological issues.How's the weather in fantasy land Brew?

Whistlebritches wrote:



Look at the bight side WB, when you done giving Trump a hand job, you can do DeSantis next!
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