usahog
  • usahog
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
23 years ago
btw she's a clown also!!!!!

Hog
usahog
  • usahog
  • Herf-A-Holic Topic Starter
23 years ago
Maybe I should have used a Puppet??

Hog
JonR
23 years ago
What childish replies I think someone needs a time out, a nappy perhaps. JonR
Danny
23 years ago
hypothetical=jibberish, I see, never heard that before, appreciate the enlightenment. You come across as all knowing, and any potential disagreement comes from a clown. That's my take on the way you presented your case. I don't neccessarily disagree with you, but given a choice, I would prefer a debate based on respect for the individual, if not their opinion. If you don't like or welcome my observations of the way you propose an argument, then all you have to do is keep it hidden from my observation, and I won't comment. If you decided to engage in a debate, and you maintained respect for the individuals you engaged, I would respect you in return as a matter of course, and we could leave the name calling and suppositions out of it, and just stick to the heart of the matter. Why is that asking too much?
Robby
23 years ago
My son was born 1 week prematurely. He was no less a person 1 minute before he was born or 1 minute after he was born. Many people, even those who have pro abortion rights views tend to be repulsed by the idea of late term abortions, i.e., partial birth. Because even though they’re all pro-woman’s rights, and all that, they still view this brutal process as infanticide.

So with that “viability” or self sustained life outside the womb as a baseline, many make their peace with the issue. I.e., if the baby isn’t viable, “it” is nothing more than just that, an it, a blob of tissue, some flesh inside the woman’s body, and like the appendix, expendable.

If you can square yourself with this, then the sticky issue of medical technology rears it’s ugly head. For instance, they can now keep very small “premies” alive outside the womb. 28 weeks and earlier. 10 years ago, this technology did not exist or was not as advanced. So if a baby wasn’t a baby at 28 weeks 10 years ago, but is a baby now because our technology has advanced, then will a baby be a baby at 20 weeks in another 10 years? And sooner after that? Is the “personhood” of the person based solely on our ability to sustain the person’s life outside the womb? Or is their personhood based on something else? When do they actually “become” a person? That’s what’s at the core of the discussion.

Again, if you’ve seen a baby born, you would agree with me. They are a person; it’s just a question of on which side of the vagina. So if you can follow this and agree with it in part or in whole, then it’s a question of timing. If you can get your mind around that, then I’ll talk to you about days. I.e., so it’s a person on this day, but the day before it wasn’t a person? I have a hard time with that. They are people, they’re just unborn.
Danny
23 years ago
I think Robby makes a valid point. The whole issue I think hinges on whether or not abortion is an acceptable form of birth control. When I was a teenager in the 60's, I thought so. I have since changed my mind. I think it's so easy to prevent pregnancy in the first place, that you just have to be responsible enough to not put yourself in a situation where you would even have to consider such a choice....extremely unnecessary, and celibacy has nothing to do with it.
Robby
23 years ago
indeed, but as some others stated, this is a VERY emotional issue. And interestingly enough, one which people will change their views on from time to time in their life. At one point, I considered it more acceptable then I do now. Oh well, this is one of the main reasons the dems will always keep it close or win. The hard right will make it illegal. The hard left will trumpet this. I think as usual, both sides have valid points. i.e., the hard right (which I lean toward) says NO Never! Under NO circumstances! But then the argument about rape and incest comes out, and they still say NO! Never! And that alienates many. Then there's the repubs who try to pass laws against late term or partial birth abortions, and the left says NO Never! Because they see it as incrementalism, which it would be, because the activists wouldn't high five, pack up and go home. They would move the bar. Oh well, it's good at least to try to see the issue from both sides, even if it will always be like the Israelis and Palestinians. People will need to agree to disagree.
Mrs. Usahog
23 years ago
Robby,

I don't post much on this site. I try not to get involved with the ranting and raving that goes on sometimes but, I want to say that I have to utmost respect for you regarding your post. Babies are considered human beings in my book the minute they are conceived. They all deserve a chance. There are too many decent human beings that cannot have children and would give anything to have a child. But their are others that would waste a life to keep it from interfering in theirs.

Mrs. Hog
CJBully
23 years ago
BossHog

Do you dream of me while you malinger?


Btw Danny, don't waste your time on the POS. If you want to debate a political topic try talking to a yard ornament because the end result will be the same.

ciao!

HI RICK, SLIM, CW, X and E! }:{>


oh, a little bird told me about this thread so I thought I'd drop in for a second or two.
cwilhelmi
23 years ago
Hey CJ, good to see you poking around once in a while...
Cigarick
23 years ago
I think all the anti-abortion clowns should be taxed enough that all the crack babies, unwanted teen pregnancy babies, single welfare mom babies, and low income didn't have the sense to use condoms babies can at least be raised with proper food, clothing, and medical care they probably wouldn't get otherwise. I don't see any of the cross wavers lining up for that.
Robby
23 years ago
What is amazing to me is the bilious posts from the abortion rights people posting here. Have you noticed that you run up and smack a smug remark and run away without answering any of the other posters serious questions? It seems to me utterly immature and I believe the root of this behavior is the fact that your position is "indefensible" so it's easier to say nanny nanny boo boo and run away. The bottom line is that we do pay for those who can't make it. It's called Welfare and SSI. It comes out of my check every two weeks to the tune of big bux. Adopting the same "lame" argument as the last poster, couldn't we consider euthanasia too? Why not? I mean, if a baby is born to a welfare mother who's addicted to drugs, the child will only be a drain on society (your words, not mine), so why not do the humane thing and snuff them out shortly there after? No fuss, no muss, it could even be done humanely, i.e., put them to sleep like a dog or a cat, right? Oh, but wait! THEY'RE PEOPLE! because they were born, right? But they weren’t people 1 second, that's "o n e s e c o n d" before they were born, because they were still inside, is that your position? That's somewhat of a rhetorical question because in large part (not completely), the people who've posted on this subject have made abject asses of themselves so it's doubtful that they could muster the courage to make a coherent response... And oh yeah, wonderful to have you posting CJBully, such a poetic way with words, how ever did you learn to turn a phrase like that!? Wow!
tailgater
23 years ago
I am, and always have been, 100% against abortion.

But after reading some of these posts, I may have changed my mind.
Cigarick, CJ, having folks like you around makes me wish your parents were pro-abortion...
Robby
23 years ago
The only problem is that this won't provoke a thoughtful response. I'm very interested in seeing what people think when confronted with some of the more compelling issues around this topic. As opposed to simply saying "You're a moron cause you don't agree with me!" I don't think they'll be disuaded, but I'm interested in the underpinnings that make up their position.
xibbumbero
23 years ago
Chris,You most observant,Grasshopper. X
Robby
23 years ago
What's unfortunate is that in this case of a life and death issue, people can't remain civil and express their opinions intelligently. For instance, “I think all the anti-abortion clowns”, and “If you want to debate a political topic try talking to a yard ornament”, and who could forget “for you are a Clown!!!!!”

Obviously some people have strong opinions, but many with strong opinions made “zero” effort to justify their opinion. They simply tried to be either hostile or cute. It’s very sad when people are this way on such an important issue. Very said indeed.
cwilhelmi
23 years ago
Cigarick
23 years ago
One is considered dead when there is a lack of brainwaves. At what stage of development do those brainwaves become measurable in the womb? Abortion should not be allowed after that point except when the woman's life would be endangered by carrying to term, or when the pregnancy is the result of rape. Oh, yeah--and abolish welfare, SSI, and income tax.

> Cigarick, CJ, having folks like you around makes me wish your parents were pro-abortion...

Oh, great--now I have to start looking out my window to see if there are any right-to-life whackos hiding in my bushes with an assult rifle before I go outside.
cwilhelmi
23 years ago
Robby - Look how the post opened!! The hosility came before ANY debate or civil conversation!!
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