Just smoked my last precious Habanos, a well aged Cohiba Robusto. I weep to see it go. Sure, we get some pretty good stuff Cbid and elsewhere but the best cigar I've had from CBid --and I've had many-- compares to a fine Habanos like McDonald's burger to a great steak. Alas that the good stuff is so bloody expensive.

I am quite fond of non-Cuban cigars thank you. I think a more fair analogy would be Angus beef to Kobe beef.

As good as many Cuban cigars can be ...

... there are so many more domestic cigars that are far superior to them ...

I've had too many Nicaraguan, Dominican and others, that brings shame to many of the Cuban cigars I've had lately.

I had an ISOM Bolivar last night, which was uniquely spicy in that south of the board way... Sure there are many many good and great smokes from other places, but there is an undeniable quality associated with a great ISOM that simply is not duplicated outside that island.

It may have been like that years ago ... but these days, with the high demand and low supply, they seem to be rushing them out 'green' and the quality just isn't there ... just to get them out to the wanting public.

If you can get the older ones ... you are in for a real treat. Checking the box codes is extremely important, to make sure you are getting cigars that have been aged sufficiently ... or be prepared to sit on them for a few years.

I agree with Slim, but to each his own. Smoke what you like. The only ISOM currently left in my humidor is a gifted RYJ. Will wait for some special occasion to smoke it with trepidation in that it won't live up to the expectation. Since it was gifted to me by a non-smoker I'm not even sure that it is not counterfeit and rolled with grass clippings.

John

slimboli is correct. my last box of isom cohiba lanceros had to age over a year in my humidor and they still weren't as good as some i had 15 years ago.

efm; as far as taking a shot at CB, take a look at ALL the fine smokes they offer. Take that and the price into consideration before fireing.

I agree with Slim and Rick. I've had cigars here that blow ISOMs out of the water. They don't seem to be what they used to be, for what ever reason. Still too pricey and letting them sleep long enough to get good, isn't cost effective.

To each his own, but don't be too quick to bite the hand that feeds your hobby.

When the embargo ends, we will all smoke ISOM's and more than half the premium brands will wither away. Since I can smoke ISOMs regularly and I do agree that I have had a few that were substandard and yes, they are expensive; someone EXPERIENCED tell me of some brands that could compare to an average ISOM. I sincerely want to know because I want to buy. For those of you who are commenting, and you've only had a handful in your smoking life, remember that there is an excellent chance you've had some counterfeits. Sure some of the real ones were crap too, but the law of large numbers will prevail. The people of the ISOM's have realized their mistakes and are improving quality vs. quantity. The ISOM smokes of the future should become reminiscent of the past.


There isn't much a co. can do if they can't sell ISOM's but offer a large line of decent and great smokes, at very very reasonable prices. The ending of the embargo will not change my buying habits as I can already buy your forbidden fruit. I will always pay 2-3x what you would ever pay for ISOM's, so C-bid is an alternative that allows me to afford smoking and enjoy an occasional ISOM which is usually the highlight of my month. I anticipate that when the embargo ends, that America will help to bring down the prices and C-bid will too.

For those that give recommendations for which they think are similar to ISOM’s; those in the know, do your part in weeding out the newbie’s

Once the embargo ends ... it's only going to get worse.

That small island can barely keep up with the worldwide demand as it is. And let's not forget, the Pinar del Río province, located in the western part of Cuba, was almost successively hit in late 2002 by two meteoric phenomena of great intensity: the Isidore and Lili hurricanes.

Vuelta Abajo zone, worldwide known as the zone where the best tobacco in the world is grown for making Habanos, is located in Pinar del Río province. Areas as San Juan y Martinez and San Luis are into this producing zone of Vuelta Abajo, both of them being essential in the growing of the tobacco leaves that are later used to manufacture the best Habanos brands.

Does everyone think that Cuba is some 'divinely blessed island' that produces magical cigars???

The Dominican Republic is only about 100 miles away ... and the conditions there are very similar to those in Cuba.

There are several Fuente lines that I will say are far superior to Cuban cigars ... also many of the Oliva lines, as well as many others from Nicaragua. There are several C.A.O. lines that have consistantly beat out Cuban cigars in blind tastings ... for example.

There is just a certain 'mystic' about cigars from Cuba ... don't get me wrong ... and the goods ones are like no others in the world. I love a good Cuban cigar, and cherish the times I am able to enjoy one.

... but they are getting harder to come by, and it's usually just hit and miss.

Oh ... and to think that more than half the premium brands will wither away once the Embargo is lifted ... is absolutely ludicrous!

Agreed on some points. If/when the embargo ends; there will definitely be a major shake up in the world. As far as what's better over all. If Cuban's didn't have the edge, countries like the one I live in would obviously sell others, there is no mystique in the countries that sell them because we have choice. Are non-Cuban's bought in these countries? Absolutely, some brands make a darn good Cigar. As for as the majority of sales go, you just have to make a logical observation and the better smokes get purchased. Think about it. Super premium non-Cuban's would sell for less in my country, so why don't people buy them. I just don't think anyone can argue with that observation. If Coke were that much better than Pepsi of vice versa, one would be significantly bought over the other all over the world.

I also believe their is a bit a patriotism with a lot of cigars predominantly sold in America and observe as an outsider some bias as the lover of those leaves defend the product. Understandable and normal. I might ad that I’m smoking more and more non-Cuban’s; they’re just less expensive. If money were no object I would smoke the obvious choice regularly, as many wealthy Americans do.

Also more cigars were sold before the embargo than now, as more people smoked cigars, the production was just fine than. Will there be an adjustment period and major mistakes made, yep. Will the Cigar market in Cuba privatize, yep; it’s already 50% owned by the Spaniards.

Will some domestic (US) brands disappear? Absolutely, you don't think when Castro is gone and Cuba becomes more democratic that many of the cigar families will try to reclaim there past. There is already a legal precedent. These brands won’t disappear in one day will be over time, Supply and Demand

Thank you for your recommendation ( CAO and Fuentes ). These are Cigars I want to buy more of, through C-bid, as they are not in large supply in Alberta. The places that do sell them charge an arm and a leg, because of the mystique.

Let’s keep this thread going.

I take it Limoric is Canadian. I get up to Canada 2-3 times a year (from Seattle). Anyway, the thing is that there is a certain Cuban flavor profile that just isn't completely duplicated by others. Different, not always better. A well aged premium Cuban as a wonderful experience, but I've spent 15-20 bucks on top brand name Cubans up in Canada and have not been wowed. On a much more consistent basis, the nice Dominicans(Opuses, Fuente SG) and Nicaraguans (Padron, Oliva) really are wonderful in a different flavor sort of way. Ok, so woe is you, time for a trip or something. I'm sure you'll survive until then.

limoric --- you make a lot of statements that seem to be based on some kind of factual statistics. What bothers me a little, is where do you get your facts, and are they really true?

You state ... "As for as the majority of sales go, you just have to make a logical observation and the better smokes get purchased." Are you trying to tell everyone here, that Cuban cigars in the country where you live out sell all the others? I find that hard to believe, except for the fact that that only reason that may be, is the many of the 'others' just aren't available. I know for certain that the distribution of many of the major cigar manufacturerers are limited as to what countries they can export their product. And, the only reason more Cuban cigars may have been smoked before the embargo ... is they were legal then for us in the U.S., and easier to get.

You also talk about 'patriotism' and the like, and state, "Will some domestic (US) brands disappear?" Most of the cigars we are talking about are not U.S. brands. I don't know very many people who smoke cigars that are made in the U.S. (most, IMHO ... are nothing more than machine-made garbage). All the best cigars are made in the 'other' countries. I really don't think too many people who smoke Cuban cigars in the U.S. are really thinking about whether or not they are being patriotic, or not ... or they wouldn't go through all the trouble they do to get them.

I don't think the established cigar factories are going anywhere. The 'fly-by-night' 'let's take advantage of the cigar boom' companies have already fallen ... and those who haven't, will continue to fall, whether or not the embargo is lifted.

Canadian tobacco taxes being what they are ... are the only reason ALL the cigars purchased in that country are rediculously high. I have many cigar buddies who live in Canada that complain about that to me all the time, both with the Cuban cigars ... and the 'Domestic' variety.

dbguru

I'm glad you mentioned that certain Cuban flavor profile, I guess it's what I really like and haven't found as yet in the non-Cuban variety. I have smoked some Cigars and thought, what was their point in making such a cigar. Kind of like making a car with a 1 gal tank. All the Cuban's I've smoked have been pretty full bodied. When I was a newbe I asked the Cigar shop owner for a mild Cuban, he laughed and said what do you mean. Maybe some people that have always smoked mild to medium distinctly different flavored cigars, see those cigars as normal, I am not one to say they're not. Explains my confusion to read people say about Cubans they've tried "tastes different" and not "fantastic". And when a mild to medium extremely well made cigar gets rated a 90 along side a great tasting full bodied Cuban which was not made as nicely, I get equally confused. Which is why I don't follow the rating system to closely anymore.

I like that leathery coffee been taste in a Cigar, and have yet to replicate that taste in the non-Cuban variety, although I admit I've only smoked about 20 different kinds of non-Cuban's. It's also why I've asked for those in the know to make specific recommendation. Trust me, I want to become converted. dbguru $15-$20 Cuban in Vancouver is $25-30 in Edmonton.

Slim mentioned that the D.R, which is not far from Cuba, can make a similar cigar. That's like saying North Carolina, which isn’t far from Kentucky, can make a similar Bourbon.

I guess we are all bias to the particular tastes we have developed, but I must say, some of the Nic's and Dim's I've had today taste better than the ones I smoked a year ago when My portfolio consisted of a handful of the variety. But I will always love a decent ISOM

limoric --- you seem to have the ability to come up with a lot of very clever analogies when doing comparisons ... but, "saying North Carolina, which isn’t far from Kentucky, can make a similar Bourbon" ... is talking about a manufacturing process ...

My comparison of the two islands, is that by being so geographically close to each other ... their climate, weather conditions, soils and such are very similar to each other for the growing process of plant material. It's all in the hands of nature ...

Sure ... Cuba's 'mico-climates' and the differences in soil make-up is going to make a difference, and it will definately have an influence on the tobacco plants growing there.

That's what makes Cuban tobacco have the characteristics that sets their cigars apart from all the rest.

All I am saying ... is that just because it's from Cuba ... that in itself doesn't make it a better cigar, they just taste different ...

I totally agree that a Cuban can't just be assumed better than any non-Cuban. As far as the Kentucky analogy, I read in CA mag that Bourbon can't really be called Bourbon unless it is made in Kentucky.

CA mag
As with French-appellation wines, there are strict laws governing just what a Bourbon must be to be labeled as such. For example, at least 51 percent of the grain used in making the whiskey must be corn (most distillers use 65 to 75 percent corn). Bourbon must be aged for a minimum of two years in new, white oak barrels that have been charred. Nothing can be added at bottling to enhance flavor, add sweetness or alter color. Though technically Bourbon can be made anywhere, Kentucky is the only state allowed to put its name on the bottle. And as Kentucky distillers are quick to point out, Bourbon is not Bourbon unless the label says so.

Some things grow naturally in their specific regions. Not too long ago a Dim or Nic puro was unheard of. It took a long time to replicate the quality found naturally in Cuba. Does that make Cuba better? Not necessarily. If the embargo didn't happen their would be very little else out there but Cuban's it was the genius of these Cuban families that were expropriated from their land, that created an alternative market. It took decades and hard ache to replicate what was easily cultivated in their old land. They should be very proud to produce a product that scores very high today. But even they reminisce about the old days and have admitted they would go back if they could recapture what was once theirs. Still some say they will never go back, their accomplishments are too much and the want to finish what they started.

The short of the long of it is; I think the average Cuban is better than the average non. But I also believe their are some non-’s out there that kick but I just want to try more of them.

When the embargo is lifted supply and demand will rapidly change the quality of ISOMs, no matter how you feel about them right now. The island is so starved for hard cash and with pent-up demand in the U.S. for every Tom, ****** and Harry wanting to smoke a real "Cuban" they will roll everything green, including Astroturf, in Cuba to sell cigars to the "Yankee Gringo Dogs". While the government, whatever it may be in the future, will try to keep strict controls it will be a little like trying to stick toothpaste back in the tube... it ain't gonna happen. Over the long haul the excitement will subside and a balance will be achieved with production and quality relative to supply and demand.

Just my 2 cents worth...

John

Limoric, I do not consider myself to be 'one in the know' but would suggest the La Perla Habana. To me it had somewhat of a coffee flavor.
I'd send ya one but it was all I had in a sampler pack.

jgjam

You have a point, however with Altadis owning one half the company and the countries inevitable transformation from dictatorship to democratic free enterprise, I'm sure some brands wouldn't want to permanently tarnish their image. I'm thinking now, there could likely be a mass-market dog rocket market and a controlled high-end market, sort of how it is in the rest of the world.

Interesting how discussion can provoke thought.