RICKAMAVEN
23 years ago
Librarians Chafe Under Patriot Act Rules
BOULDER, Colo. (AP)--To Priscilla Hudson, public libraries are society's great equalizer, a place where anyone can go to learn regardless of their economic, social or political background.
So she doesn't much like Big Brother peering over their shoulder.
Hudson, manager of Boulder's main library, is among a number of librarians nationwide who oppose a provision in the USA Patriot Act that gives authorities access to records of what people check out from libraries or buy from bookstores.
The law is why Boulder librarians have lately been purging their files on patrons every week, not every couple of months. And experts say other libraries are doing similar things.
``Boulder is truly right in line with what other libraries are doing,'' said Deborah Caldwell-Stone of the American Library Association in Chicago.
The Justice Department says the Patriot Act, put in place after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, is crucial in the war on terrorism. Critics say it gives the government too much power.
Attorney General John Ashcroft defended the USA Patriot Act at a news conference Thursday, saying subpoenas of business or library records are subject to greater scrutiny by judges under the anti-terrorism law than those issued under regular criminal investigations.
Ashcroft also said the Justice Department is required by law to report details of its use of these powers, which are classified, twice a year to Congress.
``So you have both the legislative branch of the government and the judicial branch of the government making sure that there aren't abuses,'' Ashcroft said.
Also on Thursday, Sen. Russ Feingold introduced legislation that would limit the FBI's ability to gather library, bookstore and other records under the act.
The Wisconsin Democrat, the only senator to vote against the Patriot Act, said it makes sense to give authorities some access, but ``we can protect both our nation and our privacy and civil liberties.''
The previous day, the American Civil Liberties Union and several Islamic groups filed a lawsuit in Detroit against using the act to let FBI agents monitor the books people read.
The ACLU also said that under a provision of the law, librarians can't tell the patron that the library has given the records to the government, and would be legally bound to secrecy forever.
Even before the lawsuit, librarians across the country had been waging their own form of protest.
The Santa Cruz, Calif., library is shredding its sign-in sheets for using the computers more often, Caldwell-Stone said. Other libraries have posted signs warning patrons that federal authorities may review their records.
The Montana Library Association passed a resolution saying it considers parts of the Patriot Act ``a present danger to the constitutional rights and privacy rights to library users.'' Privacy rules there are so strict that Montana librarians must get children's permission before telling their parents what they're reading.
``More so than in other Western states, we have a real privacy feel to our Constitution and also our Montana code,'' said John Finn of Great Falls, head of the library association.
Government officials emphasized that the act allows the government to obtain ``business records,'' which they said could include library records, though the act makes no mention of libraries.
Caldwell-Stone said libraries cooperate when presented with a search warrant for records. But she said the Patriot Act allows authorities to seize ``any relevant tangible item'' in an investigation without having to show probable cause that a crime was committed.
Forty-eight states have laws protecting library patrons' privacy, Caldwell-Stone said. The other two, Hawaii and Kentucky, have opinions by their attorneys general upholding the right.
``What the First Amendment protects and what goes on in your head isn't a basis for punishing you,'' she said.
John Suthers, U.S. attorney in Colorado, said he appreciates the concerns, but said the Patriot Act deals with business records and doesn't specify libraries and bookstores.
The law says the FBI cannot investigate a U.S. citizen on the basis of activities protected by the First Amendment, he said. Justice Department spokeswoman Barbara Comstock also said that part of the law requires court approval to obtain records.
Libraries and book stores across the country, however, support changing the law to make sure they aren't targeted. A book store in Montpelier, Vt., will purge purchase records for customers who ask.
The Tattered Cover Book Store in Denver, one of the country's largest independent book stores, won a fight last year to protect a customer's privacy. The Colorado Supreme Court refused to order the store to turn over purchase records in a drug investigation.
The justices said records of what a person reads are constitutionally protected, and police must show a compelling interest in seeing them.
Tattered Cover general manager Matt Miller said because of business considerations, the store isn't purging its records like the Vermont store.
``We certainly respect stores and libraries that choose to handle records in the way they do,'' Miller said. ``We spent two years trying to protect customers' privacy and First Amendment rights. It remains an integral part of our philosophy.''




usahog
23 years ago
Rick your AOHell email don't work???

tried to send you a nice email and it kicked back to me?? you got me on Ignor? LMAO!!!!

Hog
billyjackson
23 years ago
I work at a Div I university library. The only thing the system keeps in it is what a person has checked out currently. Also, each item only logs the last patron to check it out...so Mein Kamp (sp?) would only show the last person to check it out, not everyone in the history of the library.

donutboy2000
23 years ago
What do you have to hide?
mrtelcom
23 years ago
Next time you watch Planes Trains and Auto's .. notice the book John Candy is reading in the airport.
LMAO.
mrtelcom
23 years ago
Oh, and John Ashcrtoft is welcome to any stick I own. He is a fine American...
billyjackson
23 years ago
donut,

Are you asking the thread in general or me in particular...in general, it is not a matter of having anything to hide but to what lengths we are willing to go to combat terrorism. I am torn...part of me says "If you want to take away privacy (which is going to have to happen to some extent) of ordinary citizens, then at least torture the people in custody for terrorism until they spill their guts...if they don't do it for them."

The more realistic and moderate part of me says that information should be free domain. Other than current goings on concerning national security, I have no problem with people having pretty much uncensored access to information. Mein Kampf, the history of the KKK, the Crusades, etc. shouldn't be tracked because we are worried about people getting ideas from them. If your library has it, they you should be able to check it out without privacy fears.

Of course, another part of me says to hell with teaching everyone who wants to learn how to fly a commercial jet. We don't legally give everyone handguns (please do start on me about handguns...it's just a point of reference), why should we not be very strict on who gets to do things that are out of the ordinary. For those things (I'm not sure what all I'd put on the list), people ought to be clean and citizens in good standing.

This discussion has been going strong for 2-3 years. Pardon me for thinking that my 2 cents would matter now...but I already typed it all, so I'll post it.
JonR
23 years ago
HEY MOM ! Rick is cut and pasting again, why does he do that. " Well JonR when a person is unable to formulate their own ideas their only recourse is to cut and paste ". Oh geez Mom can we help him out, like maybe send him some books. " I'm afraid not son he will only tear out the pages and paste them on fences and poles ". Oh golly Mom I wish we could help him ! " Well JonR we can't so go outside and play, I'm watching our great President George W. Bush on television, now there's a intelligent man who know's how to formulate his own ideas ".
Robby
23 years ago
bingo billy... If you have "nothing to hide", then why do we need to worry about illegal search and seizure? The right to remain silent? etc... I mean, as long as we have nothing to hide... I fear government power gone wild "regardless" of what I do or do not have to hide.
RICKAMAVEN
23 years ago
: usahog

sorry. i am now
RICKAMAVEN
HOTMAIL
COM
RICKAMAVEN
23 years ago
JonR

my best regards to your mother and i hope she is well.

don't tell her anything i say, i don't want to upset her in any way.

but you and i both know w is a complete moron.
RICKAMAVEN
23 years ago
Robby

his IQ i would guess in the mid 80's. and that's not cut and paste.
cwilhelmi
23 years ago
"If you are willing to give up freedom for safety you deserve neither" - Ben Franlin
cwilhelmi
23 years ago
FranKlin that is...
TurboFC3S
23 years ago
Thank you for the perfect quote at the perfect time cwilhelmi.

How many innocent Americans do you think have had their homes searched, their possessions taken, and their freedom stolen from them by overzealous prosecutors and police? If you think "having nothing to hide" will be your veil of safety, then you my friend are a fool.

Wake up people, you're all being pacified into blind government dependancy and trust.
DrMaddVibe
23 years ago
cwilhelmi
23 years ago
DR - With our current shadow government, we'll NEVER know...
TurboFC3S
23 years ago
Actually, I was going to say guess ... we can play the guessing game. I guess 465,377
RICKAMAVEN
23 years ago
TurboFC3S

nice to hear another voice in the darkness.. i think it might be getting lighter.
usahog
23 years ago
I know one damn thing.. a Game Warden has more rights then a US Marshal... and they can even walk into your house without a Warrent, and take your beer out of your Fridge. confiscate your guns, empty your freezers,Take your Truck, and anything else they deem necessary!!!

just before he started out the door I asked him how much it was going to cost me?














To Take my Ex Wife and keep Her?


Hog
Users browsing this topic