65gtoman - I'm a gun nut! I own three and am looking to buy my forth soon.

no your a nut with a gun, lol

that’s just for calling me a racist on a different post.

Mike,

Rights and principles are there to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.

Simple majoritarian rule is tyrannical...a simple 51% would mean that whatever that 51% wants, goes. The other 49% would be screwed, without recourse or protection. No one wants to live like that, I think.

Also, I often hear ambiguous claims about 'lawsuits' because someone was 'offended.' Would someone please direct me to one? I never actually SEE one, just hearsay to make a rhetorical point.

Why can't xians (x = 'chi,' DMV...familiar convention and abbreviation) practice in privacy? Why the insistence on having their symbols on EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE? I find it incredibly imperialistic, actually.

A little privacy for all, please!

John

OK ... color me a little bit confused here ... since the afternoon that this whole fuss first began and was posted about, I've felt it was the biggest tempest in the smallest teacup I'd ever seen ... I pointed out that day, just as I did this morning, that before the word "GOD" was included in the pledge, we got along OK and adding it has not disrupted our getting along OK ...

Frankly, I don't see that word being in the pledge as constituting the imposition of a state religion ... nor would removing it cause our foundations to crumble ...

But ... regarding the secondary issue being discussed here, let's think about something for a second ...

CW writes;
" ... because they (the government) have no business being there if liberty and justice is for all. (that) presoposes that people are religiuous, or believe in a higher power. It's not this nations or the governments place to favor any denomination, or one denomination over another"

I'm a little unclear how saying the word "God" in the pledge of allegiance favors a denomination ... but, if it somehow does and it is caused by the government to be removed from the pledge, doesn't that forced removal similarly constitute the government "being there" on behalf of the tiny sliver of NON believers in any higher power??

Chi-ians? WTF are those? The people that wanted to kill that Cubs fan the other night?

How's 'bout...DON'T TREAD ON ME!

You are part of the problem.

x = chi

Now THAT I think I can relate to ... x = Chi ... as in the x-Cubs?? ... if so, are they REALLY the x-cubs or just an x-contender this year?

a philisophical point to ponder ...

SteveS wrote:

"don't see that word being in the pledge as constituting the imposition of a state religion"

How are we to take the word God, except as a religious name?

DMV...do you not know this convention? It isn't like I invented it. Asking to not have christian (I spelled it...feel better?) stuff everywhere treads on you HOW? So far as I can see, putting it there in the first place treads on ME. Keep it at home. Where it belongs.

John

That's what you meant by xian? You have THAT big of an axe to grind that you can't even say christian? LMMFAO!



You're in trouble.

Steve you beat me to it.

A little contradiction from cw. If you read some of the history that has been alluded to here you will know that separation of church and state does in no way reflect that God must be stricken from all government publications, buildings, etc.

Look at your money if the word God causes so much grief for you get rid of everything you own that says in God we trust. You are free to move somewhere that agrees with you.

The vocal minority have twisted and pushed this country where we do not wish to see it go. Cut off Cali and the majority of the minority go with it.

Who crams it down your throat? Are you forced to say the pledge or pray? Does anyone force you to go to church? Do Christians, Hindus or Muslims knock on your door daily saying repent and be saved my BOTL? They don't where I live. So don't tell me I can't have God there and I won't tell you you have to be a believer.

No one forces you to say Christ. But without him I suppose you do not celebrate CHRISTmas. Don't put an X where it never belonged.

What gives you the right to deny our faith? Where is your tolerance?

Know God, Know Patience
No God, No Patience

Some people are ignorant to other folks feelings about God. Like using the term xian or calling Christ a "big long haired white dude". Its just not right.

I think this person knows it isnt right, but likes to try and insult others with subtle remarks. And act like they are done innocently, when they obviously arent.

If this person truthfully doesnt realize what he's doing, then there is an obvious lack of knowledge in this subject. This person should move on and quit insulting others. Just my opinion...

Mag

Actually Mike...I think these types of people need to read the Constitution, The Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. Reading the Federalist Papers would be wise too.

Don't like God in your life? Give me your money. It has God all over it. I won't be offended to spend your God money!

The main issue about the pledge began with the saying of it in schools. Usually the same schools where they want to have a prayer. This all has a Christian bias. Why? Because like you guys say, this country was founded on Christian principles. Now, I'm thinking about the non-christian kid in school. He doesn't have to pray you say. Sure, but by not doing so, the kid seperates himself. He's excluded. Might feel the same way with the pledge. "His" God's name is Brahman. Or is maybe nameless and referring to it is inappropriate. If he doesn't say God, someone WILL notice. And you can bet he'll be picked on. I think today it's more appropriate for religion to be private. Yes, it's inevitable that some references will come up. But what we all have in common is our CITIZENSHIP in this great country. I think it is better to emphasize our common experiences and de-emphasize our differences.

"Some people are ignorant to other folks feelings about God. Like using the term xian or calling Christ a "big long haired white dude". Its just not right."

Get it straight, here: I called GOD that. I have it on the authority of the Vatican itself, witnessed with my own eyes. On the Sistine Chapel ceiling:

Big - He's God, for God's sake. Of course He's big.
Long Haired - He has long hair. No two ways about it.
White - He is white. Not even much olive tint to his skin, as I recall, but I am actually color-blind, so I might be a bit off on that.
Dude - He is, after all, "He."

Lighten up. And I am actually factually correct on this.

Are people here offended by xian? Please. I correspond with a priest, an old English professor of mine (I went to a Jesuit college), and he always writes 'Xian.' In fact, that's where I learned the abbreviation.

Is he 'denying' his own faith? Please. Chill.

John

XDog, that doesn't make sense.

That's as bad as one person that live close to you has an allergy to BBQ chicken. You make it on your grill and it cheeses this person off. They can smell it, and they can remember what it tasted like, but if they eat it they'll have an allegic reaction, and if this person came over to your house or picketed your business you'd stop grilling BBQ chicken. Now you're put out because you can't have what you want! That's not any type of freedom that America is based on! The majority does rule. Tyranny, schmnarry! Don't like it...sway people to your side. So far this whole case is built on the 9th district and this divorced father that's wired the same way as CBid's nutty "professor"! How many of you know that this kook's daughter stood in front of her school and actually led hed school in reciting the Pledge way before this nut job filed this frivilious suit? She did. Anyone know why mom got custody? Look it up. The dad is a flaming goofball!

America is built on tolerance, but it doesn't mean you have to cave in because someone says to. The same goes for the ACLU thread that's on here. Representing child molesters for free is a violation of who's legal(and I stress LEGAL)rights!?! Would they represent the sodomized kid?

You don't petition the judicial system to introduce legislation. That's the rub. Not one politician would DARE stand on Capitol Hill and raise their fist to say they're going to take the word God out of everything.

Questioning 50,000 people can never give you the breakdown of America when there are at least 281,421,906 people in America. Religion and CHRIST are never shoved in your face or down your throat, except by the people that go door to door. What is shoved down people's throats is the anti-religion sentiment.

JD

I dont care where you got your info from. You are incorrect. I'm a lector in my church, I'm now a euchurstic minister and alter server too. I read to the clergy from the old and new testimant every week.

So dont tell me that you know more than I do about Christian terminology. You dont live it, I do. You will NEVER see God or Christ called 'dude' anywhere. That is in my opinion being very disrespectful.

Would you go up to the President, or a 4 Star General and call him dude? Of course not! God, Christ, the Pope or any other religions important persons or positions deserve respect. Even from non believers.

Mag

So trying to find a basic level where all Americans can abide together on a common footing doesn't make sense. Trying to love and understand your neighbor doesn't make sense. Where you guys live maybe it's just "one person". Where I live it's LOTS more. Lots of Vietnamese and folks from India. And I live a stone's throw from the Nation's Capital! We are Americans. I embrace my neighbor on that basis. What could be more American. Or more Christian? The BBQ chicken analogy is weak. What we are talking about is WAY more important. It's not right to sgregate or exclude someone in this country because of their religion. Or lack of it. These are issues that have been hotly debated since the first guy stepped off the first boat. The Constitution is a living breathing document which reflects the times in which we live. Things don't stay the same. Ever. Anywhere.

Hmmmm. A little disjointed. But the sentiment is right.

Why are you people arguing opinions? It is absolutley absurd and a waste of time. He likes blue, he likes red, so what. Does it really make a difference. Are you all so self involved that you have to kick and scream at each other because you dont see things the same way? Why can't we just let each other have there own opinon and feelings without damning them for it! You dont agree, so what. Light up a stogie and change the subject. I read these posts and laugh, like this all so important that you have to have these tizzy fits when someone disagrees with you. Its the CigarBid chat room for (place whatever word you feel appropriate here) sake!

BE HAPPY PEOPLE!

Peace Out

BD