Where does Bush find these crazies? This makes our country look bad...a real embarrassment.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/10/16/rumsfeld.boykin.ap/index.html 

John

Okay... why do you think they want us all dead?

Huh, you are ambarrassed? Well, I'm not. CNN is left wing at nature, but I will still comment.

Being allies with Israel, and having nearly 3/4 of the population believe in some Christain religion. They are hateful to us because if Christianity.

We sure arent going to change, and obviously they arent going to stop hating us, anytime in the near future. Yea, they are sort of a satanic region. Except for Israel.

I dont mind the statements at all. We need to be firm with these middle eastern savages. And I'm not speaking of the normal population. I've heard that in Iraq, things are going much better than MOST media report, in every city except Bagdad.

Mag

I do hope that we are above this kind of remark, but don't they call US "The Great Satan?" Isn't turnabout fair play?

I do believe it to be true that our Judeo-Christian rooting is largely responsible for their animosity toward us. We're also paying for "The Crusades."

And probably Tikrit, Mag.

jd,

Every study that I've seen on the Koran has shown it to be a much more violence inspiring book than the Judeo-Christian Bible. After all, wasn't Muhammad a warrior king that ruled with an iron fist? Didn't he inspire his followers to do the same if not more?

Now I'm not saying that Muslims in general are "Satanic," but I believe Jesus of Nazarath was a wee bit more peace loving than Muhammad. That doesn't mean that all Christians live as their messiah would have wanted, but when Muslims use violence in the name of Allah they are FOLLOWING Muhammad's law.

I don't see why you find this important. You don't believe in God! So now you're saying that there's a Satan? Get your facts straight.

Some "big white dude with a beard(confused with Santa Claus!?!)vs. a red guy that has horns sticking on his head with a pitchfork, but hey...he's got that cool "666" tattoo working for him in an all out war for your soul!

If you'd spend any amount of time actually reflecting on thought instead of "throwing things at the wall to see if they stick", you'd see where their own holy book, the Koran speaks out against christianity and people that aren't swayed to the islamic faith, but you didn't do that! Promises of virgins and a higher place in heaven await those that take up this "jihad"! Instead you like to poke fun at their beliefs because they don't jive with your non-belief.

As far as making anyone look bad...you're leading THAT charge.

GWB himself said that this is not a war of religions. I'm with him on this one.

You can't write this off as CNN 'liberalism.' They quote directly. Are you disputing the quotation? Not even Rumsfeld was doing that.

I find all the rhetoric about 'which one is a violent religon' very amusing. Christianity, in the U.S. accounts of these 'differences,' always comes out as the 'peace loving religion.' Then we drop bombs and slaughter innocent civilians. Crusades, colonialism, slavery, genocide of Native Americans...the list of violence in the name of and justified by Christianity is long and nauseating. I don't see the big difference.

I agree that Jesus was a man of peace, forgiveness, and non-violence. But I haven't seen much of this from American Christians. Have you? What I see from most Christians in this country is a lot of violence and hatred: toward homosexuals, foreigners, immigrants, blacks from white Christians, Muslims in the past few years, Jews historically, and so on. I know there are good things too: hospitals, soup kitchens, and so on. But those good things (which I value and commend believers, especially Catholics...who comprise most of these examples, in my experience) do not blot out the violence in history and the contemporary world.

My point is that no religion has a corner on madness and violence. So to pit the Goldy against Satan is not only inflammatory and embarrassing rhetoric, it is factually and historically misleading and inaccurate.

I care about this issue because I am an American, just like all of you who hate me (a Christian value?), and I am represented on the world stage by my government...whether I agree with that govt or not. This guy should be fired, simply put. His statements are counter-productive and, to my mind, exhibit an unstable mental state.

John

"I care about this issue because I am an American, just like all of you who hate me (a Christian value?), and I am represented on the world stage by my government...whether I agree with that govt or not. This guy should be fired, simply put. His statements are counter-productive and, to my mind, exhibit an unstable mental state."

My sentiments EXACTLY. Think about THAT the next time you espouse how great Marx was!

"What is this, the Spanish Inquisition?"

John,

It is really quite simple. Most religions think theirs is the only right one. Most religions will try to convert non-believers. Some religions think you're better off dead if you don't convert. Some religions will assist non-believers in achieving the goal of being better off dead. Some religions have matured past the days of holy wars, some have not.

You have cited examples that you have attributed to Christianity that are 100 years or older. Did you happen to catch the Malaysian Prime Minister's speech yesterday at the Organization of the Islamic Conference?

Here are some exerpts in case you missed it:

"We need guns and rockets, bombs and warplanes, tanks and warships for our defense. But because we are discouraged from learning of science and mathematics as giving us no merit for the afterlife, today we have no capacity to produce our own weapons for our defense. We have to buy our weapons from our detractors and enemies. We are actually very strong. 1.3 billion people cannot be simply wiped out. The Europeans killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million, but today the Jews rule the world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them. For well over half a century we have fought over Palestine. What have we achieved? Nothing. We are worse off than before. If we had paused to think, then we could have devised a plan, a strategy that can win us final victory. 1.3 billion Muslims cannot be defeated by a few million Jews. They survived 2,000 years of pogroms not by hitting back but by thinking. They invented socialism, communism, human rights and democracy so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong, so that they can enjoy equal rights with others."

Statements of condemnation have already come from the US, Israel, Germany, Australia, and the European Union is working on one. Where is your outrage and statement of condemnation? Are Jewish lives worth less than Bolivian lives? Are you calling for the Malaysian Prime Minister to be fired?

Perhaps a statement of condemnation against all religions is in order. The downside is that then you're alienated from all of them.

DMV- This is why we can't get along in this forum. John posted a link, just sparking up a little discussion, and you go and throw statements from another different thread into it. Let's try to take things one thread at a time. Make your remarks about whoever they are about in the thread that sparked your feelings, and move on to the next thread as a new, fresh start.


JMO,

JFK

If you can't see how what I posted was relevant, then I can't help you.

Where does it say that one must give up his religious beliefs when in the military?
He also said this in his own church.

Also when one must go into battle, one prays to their god and asks for strength to defeat and opposing sides god/views. I KNOW I BEEN THERE!


Some will never know what war is all about, the thinking that goes through ones mind, and I hope you never need to know.

I remember a young man, who didn’t believe in any god back in the war, the first night he spent in a hole in a jungle with shells shooting over his head, he started to believe. That young man was me.

As a German U-Boat Commander once put it...

(paraphrase)
"I was an atheist. Anyone who thinks he is an atheist should spend some time in a submarine 500' underwater waiting to see if the depth charges you heard splashing above you are going to make their mark."

It's easy to be an atheist when you have a cushy life in good ol' peace-time USA.

Also that (crazy) as you so kindly put it, has a name and rank:

Army Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin

Decorated and twice-wounded veteran of covert military operations. former commander and 13-year veteran of the Army's top secret Delta Force. Now he is deputy undersecretary of Defense for intelligence.

Maybe some of you seen the movie black hawk down? The movie was about him and his men, he was wounded AGAIN in 1993 defending your freedom.


HE IS A WAR HERO, NOT JUST SOME CRAZY

John,
You ignore the subtle differences between our attacks and theirs.

When is the last time the United States has staged a war over Religious Beliefs? I believe that would be the Revolutionary war, and religion was only one issue.

The current situation in Iraq, where you claim we "drop bombs and slaughter innocent lives" is Not based on religious differences. Rather, it is an ATTEMPT to prevent future attacks on our Nation.
You may not agree with it (that's your right), but it is indeed intended to be a proactive mission, completely devoid of religious implication.

On the other hand, we were attacked on our soil for mainly Religious reasons. Or at least religion was used as justification for their actions.

So why, once again, the condemnation of America?
This is NOT the Christians vs the Muslims. At least not in our eyes.
Maybe you have a different perspective?

Tailgater, read what I said above. I agree with GWB that this is not a religious war. In fact, I am outraged and embarrassed by this jackass...that's why I posted the link.

I condemn my country because the current leadership is an absolute embarassment. Extremist foreign policy has led to a lot of unnecessary death and destruction. We've been lied to about 'imminent threats' and weapons of mass destruction. Tax breaks for the wealthy have tanked the economy. No-bid contracts given to friends of the administration. And so on. There is so much to condemn, very little to compliment. Tell me what I should be proud of with this administration?

Maybe Bush Jr. is Satan and I am at war with him...I'll have to think about 'ol Mr. Pitchfork tonight.

John

jdrabinski Give me the Facts to the Bull**** you are spewing out of your Yapper!!!!!

we lost what 3600 in just 1 hour or a little over that... but thats in the past???
I've given you FACTS on all the BS Lies your spewing.. now show me your facts to what you are saying about this Administration... and another thing what you have Writen here above is an absolute slap in the Face to Military Men and Women... I must be a Satan because my AFSC is WEAPONS and I've been working and training others for the past 18 yrs to Protect these United States... but what I'm reading from your post in your Eye's I'm working and training to kill Inosent People... I asked you in Many Posts where I showed you the facts... and you sly away from them and open up another BS link to Liberal Bias BS News!!!

I just talked to two guy's down at Scott AFB who were completing their Physicals because they've been called up Out of Retirment to do another stent because America Needs them they both said... their in their 40's but both were smiling and looking forward to their adventures... Military Folks are a Different Bread and Some ain't... those are the ones who weed out early!!!!!!!

Stop Kicking on the US of A!!!!!!

Hog

"I condemn my country because the current leadership is an absolute embarassment"

Those are the words of a true JACKASS you don’t have a shred of respect for this man. You have no respect for your country. You have no respect. You are an embarrassment to your country.

"I condemn my country because the current leadership" Well you don't like it Pack your **** and head East!!!

"is an absolute embarassment." see above reply!!!

"Extremist foreign policy has led to a lot of unnecessary death and destruction." Not on American Soil since WE (American Military Fighting Men and Women) have taken the fight to THEM...

"We've been lied to about 'imminent threats' and weapons of mass destruction." What John are you so possative because some Arab Speaking Extreamist hasn't knocked on your Door and Shoved a Synide Laddened Gerbal up your ass.. you haven't felt the pressures of Imminent Threats... I bet you would feel differently had your ass been on the 10th floor of the WTC on 911 wouldn't it??? think Philosophically about that one!!!

"Tax breaks for the wealthy have tanked the economy."
What you a little pissed I'm suprised I reached the Wealthy State this year bacause I got my First Tax Break in about 10 yrs this past yr 400 bucks over my regular dividend... I bought Cigars with that Wealthy Moneys Earned glad I got to contribute to the economy Tank
"No-bid contracts given to friends of the administration." The Idea here was my Posting on the link for this.. shouldn't be to hard for you to pull it up.. it was a link to a liberal Bias News Speal... the fact is... the Infrastructure to Iraq needs to be rebuilt along with the rest of the country.. you got a friend who own's a business that would be willing to risk their lives to go into a Country with these type radical Extremists still shooting Americans.. and them set up their construction company and start working on things??? the Company's chosen to do this work have a long history with the Federal Government for doing Jobs like this all over the World... most of them clear back to WWII... So have your buddy's send in their bids also... but if they strike the bid and back out... their Liable...

"And so on. There is so much to condemn, very little to compliment." Only in your Eye's and Mind!!!

"Tell me what I should be proud of with this administration?" How he took the Fight to them instead of More Innocent Americans Dieing on our Homelands.. I get a gut wrenching thought about AL Gore running this country then 911 happening.. and then more **** all across this land Terrorist Acts and ****... then I wake up and realize... this isn't Isreal and it's safe to go to the market today and tomorrow!!!
We got Military Members Fighting and being away from their Family and Loved one's while Someone like you sits back and Bad Mouths their Commander and Chief and their Homeland!!!!! KMA!!!!!!!

Hog