Evolution is supported by far more than 'a scientist noticing similarities,' including but not limited to archeology, anthropology, radiolgy, chemistry, geology, and biology.

The only people who call it a theory anymore are Christians.

00camper,

Iam truly impressed...

Patman

00camper

i kind of like "The Little Demon Theory"

the alien theory was well explained in "chariot of the gods" by Erich Von Daniken.

to think that we alone in the universe have intelligence and self awarness, is to push the bounds of ego.

RICKAMAVEN,
Thank you.

Actually the Little Demon Theory can be used to explain any phenomenon. For example most scientists believe that the heat from friction is caused by energy released from the wearing away of the two surfaces.

This is simply not true!

Crushing the bodies of little demons releases tremendous amounts of heat and rubbing any two objects together crushes billions of little demons...you get the idea.

The Little Demon Theory cannot be proved, nor can it be disproved, because little demons are invisible, they have no mass, they are able to move instantly from anywhere in the universe to any where else in the universe, and they communicate telepathically.

Patman,
Thank you, too. Don't be too impressed, though.

I simply believe that evolution is less than fact and there is no way to prove otherwise. There is no time stamp on the fossils or in the surrounding rock formations. There is no way to conclusively prove that the earth has circled the Sun 50 billion times. I choose to believe that God created the universe.

Another point to make is that LIVE oysters have been carbon dated to be several million years old! I also CHOOSE to beleive, I'm not too hung up on the way God did it, just assured that he did. Besides, if I CHOOSE to beleive in God, I'm not condenmed to perdition if I'm wrong. Can you say the same for belief in Charles Darwin?

00camper,

"All objects in space have a gravitational field, even flat ones."

That's only the way some see it --- not me, not if I don't understand or accept gravity, in spite of evidence to the contrary. Maybe I choose to believe in something else (like little demons?) holding things to the flat surface. Maybe my folks taught me that all my life, I've even read about it myself, the thought is very comforting, and I have no urge to investigate any other explanation.

I do agree that we still, and should, call evolution a "theory" because, according to classic scientific method rules, it hasn't been proven, as you suggested. However, that does not mean that the concept can be summarily dismissed.

On the other hand, if a creator made us, it looks like he either 1) accomplished it through evolution or 2) made us in seven days and intentionally placed enormous amounts of misleading evidence to test our faiths. A result of the Fall from Grace, perhaps.

In a different but related thread, a forum member commented thusly on Rickamaven's views:
"The belief that there is no God requires a lot of faith, since it is impossible to prove."
I didn't quite get that remark. Neither existence nor nonexistence of a god has been proven (and don't just wave a book at me. I can quote "The Night Before Christmas to prove the existence of Santa Claus with equal effect).

CWFoster:

With respect, we don't CHOOSE to believe anything. Not if it's an actual belief, and not merely pretense. We are compelled to believe or not, based on whatever we've experienced that has led us to our particular personal conclusions. We may CHOOSE to pretend many things, even to the point of trying to fool ourselves, but what we believe is undeniable and unescapable. Accepting our beliefs avoids a lot of neurosis.

I had been wondering if anyone would mention the "life insurance" aspect of believing in god. If that's the basis for a belief, then it's not belief, it's pretense, which wouldn't fool the one Being that matters. I suppose I would enjoy having a safety net for existence, but I don't. My most intense wishes for magical presents on Christmas morning if I'm a good boy would not make Santa real.

Pseudo-scientists, puh-LEEZE!

It is impossible to prove something doesn't exist. If you disagree with this, prove that there is not a tribe of invisible, microscopic pygmies living in your tennis shoes.

On the other hand, it is possible to prove something does exist: present it.

coda, We are all presented with the same gospels. One hopefully receives the 'leading' or 'conviction' of the Holy Ghost to make the decision wether to follow Christ or turn away from Him. I CHOSE to follow. Sometimes I don't follow as closely as I should, that's My fault, not His. I don't preach, because even though to hide behind a hipocrite you have to be smaller than him, I don't wish to have someone try to use me as thier excuse. I have my trials and others have thiers. Yes, the "life insurance aspect" is weak, and will not spare anyone, but if it causes some to seek, just a bit and they reach the point where they feel that leading, and have to make that chioce, then who cares what mechanism caused them to do that little seeking? "some planted and some watered, but God reaps the harvest" I think that's about how it goes, I'm a bit rusty.

I know Jesus loves me, His step-dad used to be a carpenter, and so was I, now I'm a sailor, and He picked up a quarter of his disciples off the waterfront. He picked a tax collector, and DARN if I don't work for the government! I may take a tongue in cheek look at faith once in awhile, but gospel means "GOOD NEWS" so have a cigar, and enjoy your blessings!

what's your take on the 2nd law of thermodynamics? It states that one of the most basic laws of science is that things in nature always tend to dissolve and breakdown, not grow more complex. Our bodies do. The bodies of every plant and animal in the world do...what's your thoughts on that?

passion268

that's not quite right. the second law of thermodynamics is

"Energy spontaneously tends to flow only from being concentrated in one place to becoming diffused or dispersed and spread out."

that has little if any effect on plants and animals mutating to adjust to their changing enviornment.

CWFoster

"We are all presented with the same gospels"

no we are not. native americans, orientals, islams, and others are not even interested in jesus. he is not mentioned in their gospels.

i did not know that mary's husband, step father as you so eloquently put it, was a carpenter. (and i am not being a smart ass or sarcastic)

There is nothing in the universe that violates the second law of thermodynamics, and there's no connection between thermodynamics and evolution.

In a closed system, you're always going to lose some energy. Heat cannot pass from a colder body to a warmer body by itself. There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine.

Explain to me what any of this has to do with evolution.

Rick, no other faith I am aware of refers to thier holy scripts as "Gospels" reference to "carpenter" to follow

Cigarick: I'm not trying to tell you if you're right or wrong here... maybe this will help explain where it fits in... just trying to see some people's opinions on this:


The first law of thermodynamics says that the total quantity of energy in the universe remains constant. This is the principle of the conservation of energy. The second law of thermodynamics states that the quality of this energy is degraded irreversibly. This is the principle of the degradation of energy.
Applying this knowledge to nature, physicists found that the total entropy change always increases for every naturally occurring event that could be then observed. Thus, they theorized, disorder must be continually augmenting evenly throughout the universe.

Energy in the universe is working towards a state of equilibrium. Incidentally, the process of the energy reaching equilibrium results in ordered matter becoming disordered. The consequences to our universe are fatal. Eventually, the entire universe will become disordered; the sun will fade and extinguish, man will return to dust, comets will cease to be, the gravitation of the earth will diminish to non-existence, ordered chemical matter will break down to become simpler and less ordered, our solar system will slow and stop, disorganisation of balance and precision in the universe will increase, and so on.... All ordered matter is moving from order to disorder! This is a most unfortunate reality. The simple will never produce and has never been observed to produce the more complex!

Put simply, it means that the universe is running downwards and that all natural order is going downwards. However, evolution requires to work in the opposite direction. Evolution requires to work upwards i.e. order to arise from disorder. Evolution requires the simple to produce the more complex. i.e. non living matter becoming living matter, and then microbes eventually evolving into complex living organisms, including man, and so on...

besides, look at the past hundred years of human development. we have overall learned more, but as a species, have largely become more stupid

You've explained thermodynamics fairly well, but it still doesn't apply to evolution.

Thermodynamics = 1. heat, 2. mechanical energy, 3. the conversion of either of these into the other, 4. and eventually getting used up.

Biology is a little more complex than that.

I'm with you on that cigarick... I was only thinking that scientists (including bioligists) say it is the probably the single most relevant law when it comes to the workings of all natural aspects of our world. Entropy goes beyond simply being a loss of heat. So I've just been curious how one of the laws of the universe that has never otherwise been refuted could just be thrown out when it comes to the whole creation/evolution debate. That's all from me on it. Have an awesome day. I think I'm going to light up an MX2!

Passion, you are totally wrong in that everything becomes simpler and not complex. The laws of thermodynamics states that there is a tendency to go towords more entropy as a whole system, yet bits and parts of that system can lose entropy just as long as the whole gains. Therefore, the system is the Universe, yet Earth is just a minute part of the whole system. You will get reactions that lose entropy, yet as long as the system as a whole gains, and we know its gains alot from burning stars. There are several reactions or events that lose entropy, such as freezing water to ice, yet it happens, it just requires some energy to do. I just wanted to clear that up, yet how does thermodynamics relate to evolution?

choner