Last week RICKAMAVEN posted a thread and the forum held a debate over creationism v. evolution. There was very little name-calling and I think things went well, all things considered.

With that in mind I would like to open a dialogue about the political positions we of the forum hold.

I'm a conservative. I'll use two areas to stake out my position:

[1] Taxes. I think that everybody's tax rate (percentage) should be the same. That way everything is fair and even for everybody. The guy who earns more pays more; the guy who earns less pays less.

[2] Guns. I like guns. I have lots of them - revolvers, semi-automatics, shotguns and rifles. I don't understand why other people don't want me to have my guns. Taking guns away from people like me won't prevent crime. I'd like to be able to order a Colt 1911A1 or Thompson and have it shipped to my house just like my grandpa could do in the 20's and 30's.

There are a lot more things I could write about but I still have a day job and I'd like to keep it. So, what about the rest of you? Conservative, Liberal or Moderate and Why? Just remember, this could be interesting if we avoid name-calling and personal attacks.

I, too am a conservative. I'll cite the same reasons as you, and add that I'm a realist. I think the government has messed up everything they've tried to run, bogging it down in bureurocracy (I know, I mispelled that) I think the government needs to be limited to providing for the common defense, and as little else as possible. This was the original position held by the original Liberal, Thomas Jefferson, who thought the people should be at liberty from governmental control. This is what I believe in.

I'm a liberal because.

1. I think people already make and keep too much of their own money. Afterall, who really needs more than 40 to 50K for a family of 4? Much of that should already go to the government for the well being of all, and definitely anything over that... The government could do a much better job with that money than any of you and they should have access to it. After all, they printed it?

2. I believe people shouldn't but in to other peoples bedrooms (really I do), butt, I also believe (fingers crossed) that homosexuals should be allowed to marry and have all the same benefits that traditional married couples have been afforded, i.e., pay higher income taxes, divorce each other and screw themselves in the process. I believe they should be allowed to sue companies that fire them and claim that they're being discriminated against, and that it's not because they weren't doing their job, but more the discrimination thing... In other words, I think they should have "special rights and protection under the law".

3. Additionally I believe in quotas for everyone. For instance, if you have more than 25 people in your workplace, all should be represented equally and the merits of the individual applicant should be IGNORED! Moreover, if Eskimos make up 1% of the population, then you MUST have an Eskimo employed in your group. You must have a percentage of "openly gay" employees, or face stiff fines (even though the openly gay may enjoy this and not consider it a deterrent).

4. I don’t believe so much in personal property rights and rights of the individual as I do in the greater good of the proletariat. For instance, if 6 houses can be condemned so the city can tear them down and build a super Wallmart and realize greater tax revenues, then so be it. Screw the individuals, what’s important is the society as a whole, and no one could do a better job of making such decisions that your government.

5. No one, AND I MEAN NO ONE, should own a gun of ANY KIND, unless it is SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR HUNTING. However, Hunting should be banned because it is crewel and inhumane. Therefore, the deer population should only be controlled by birth control. And hunting should only be allowed with cameras. After all, it’s the thrill of the chase. And if birth control is used correctly, it would be damned difficult to photograph those critters! The only people who should own guns are Rosie Odonnel’s body guards, and the government of course. They know how to use them, and after all, there would be no more crime if they made guns illegal, and who likes crime anyway? Come on! No Guns! For Anyone! (except the aforementioned). If it becomes necessary to rise up or defend your home, you should take a page from the Palestinians and keep a good supply of rocks handy.

6. The environment. Let’s face it, Bush and his cronies just want to destroy the planet. They want to poison the air and water to the point of extinction of the human race and all other species walking, crawling, swimming, or flying. Just so long as they can build their underground shelters and stock them with supplies so they don’t actually have to breath the air or drink the water. We all know this to be true, don’t deny it. Also, even though there are more caribou “after” the Alaska pipeline was built, WE KNOW how devastating it is to the environment to drill for oil in the arctic. So regardless of how many freeze in the northeast next winter due to a lack of heating oil, regardless of how widespread the power blackouts, we must hold our course and protect the umm, the ahhh, well whatever the hell it is that lives up there where they’re trying to drill. Filthy capitalists! Interested only in heating and cooling their homes and driving to work! Let them eat cake!!

Oh I could go on, BELIEVE ME I COULD, but I won’t. Let’s just say, you’d be better off dead than conservative, and if you are conservative, “you will die.” Oh it may not be tomorrow, or next year, but it will happen. And while you won’t meet God because he doesn’t exist, your family and friends can look back at your despicable legacy…

i believe that we all have a responsibility to help those less fortunate then ourselves.

the fact that the government does not do a good job taking care of these people does not mean we should stop trying.

the represenatives and senators are more interested in their own personal agendas. we need to replace them one by one.

every time services for the mentally retarded, like closing the places that cared for them, by cutting funds, and creating a class of homeless people, the crippled, the simply
unfortunate that have fallen on hard times, we become less civilized.

during the great depression, many towns set up shelters, mostly tents, to care for the people on
the road looking for work, or a better place to live. the towns people fed them and gave them a
temporary respite, from their travels.

i know the government does a lousy job of using it's funds, but we have made slavery unacceptable and that took thousands of years, we have all but wiped out the plague, we have found a way to prevent polio.

i'd like to keep trying to improve what we are as people.

Yeah! Right on Rick my liberal brother (high 5). We all know that conservatives don't believe that we all have a responsibility to help those less fortunate then ourselves. If they had their way, they would exterminate them to a man. Those “so called conservative Christian do gooders” we know what they’re really all about.

We all know the conservatives would stop trying to help people if they could. They want to see everyone but the filthy rich dead or dying! We need a man of the people, like John Kerry!!

And I agree that they should double your taxes and build more facilities for people who won't work. After all, why should they have to work when some have so much and don't do anything! Right on brother!

Amen to the polio thing, but I'm not sure we should spend more on Aids at the federal level than heart disease or cancer? Oh hell, let's just double everyone’s taxes and spend it all! Weeeeeeee!

I believe we all individually and collectively (mostly as a church) have a responsibility to care for those less fortunate than ourselves but the Government does NOT. It's been proven over and over again that private organizations do a far more efficient job of ministering to the less fortunate and needy than the government does.

oh, and I'm the worst kind - I'm a conservative, but still try to fool myself into thinking I'm a liberal moderate.

Go get em Robby. LMAO

I am moderate leaning to the right.

I agree with your original 2 reasons and there are too many more to list. I must distance myself from the far right religious zealots.

COMMIES!

Oops, sorry.

I'm a conservative Libertarian. Politics in this country has been an endless parade of this idiot, then that crook, followed by this socialist, then that religious whackjob. The two-party system has a strangle-hold on this country, and they're not letting go for anything--not even their own obsolesence. Sad thing is they're taking all of us down with them.

I guess you can label me as a liberal.

If it wasn't for the government's help, I wouldn't be here right now. My parents sought asylum from war-torn Vietnam and fled to the USA with seven children and no money in their pockets. It was the government and many charitable organizations that helped us through the tough times. Hare Khrishna said, "In life, help others, if you can't, don't hurt them."

I don't believe it quotas, I believe in equal opportuniy, even for eskimos. I don't care what people wish to do on themselves, its their life. Teach your children well, and they will be fine. Marijuana is safer then alcohol. I believe in the death penalty. Guns are cool, just make the registration process a little tighter, but do you really need a semi-automatic weapon, how many watermelons, deers, or people do you plan to shoot at once? Yes abortion is irresponsible, its not up to me to give birth or raise the child, so I shouldn't be telling a woman what to do. I base my beliefs on what I see and have learned, my faith is in myself, my religion is chonerism.

choner

LMAO Robby------ wacked ! i'm definatley the opposite of that ! give me a gun.
And for the city to condem buildings that some have worked there whole lifes to payoff and own....to have the city condem it for "no reason" other than walmart needs more space for thier parking lot....not even right , but it does happen.and that's a "family minded" store...HA !
conservative here.....where ever they accept gay's to be married and give them full benifits.....that's where they need to go ! teaching my kid there's a differance between "boy"s and "girls" don't need to here about my two daddy's or my mommies......you get one of each around here !! that's the way it's been done for centuries . no some homos want "special" privliges..........yeah right ! produce a kid !!!! ( like a woman does) then we'll reconcider our thought about special rights for "fellas" and "girls" too! ....ok robby.....let's hear it !!!

me to (just converted). Can I be the high priest of chonerism?

Alright Ethan, you are officially the second member of chonerism. You can take any title or position you want, just not my title which is "the high monk of nirvana".

choner

Choner you may be more of a moderate who leans left.

al'Thor abused me as a young man! I'm suing the chonerist's for every last penny! If it was a tight fit, they're not gonna aquit!!

Robby, I'm sorry for Ethan's actions, but during the time of abuse, Ethan had not converted to chonerism yet. Though I am pleased to report to you that Ethan had been a follower of the Church of Rickmavenism during those dark times. Therefore you will have to file suit against that organization. I assure you that under my cult, oops I mean religion, Ethan will be cleanesed of his past evil ways.

choner

I refused to be labeled as liberal or conservative based on narrow issues such as gay rights, abortion, taxes, guns or any other topical issue of the day.

I grew up in a middle class home until the age of ten when my parents divorced. Then I became a member of the welfare society for the next 7 years. Life sucked but we got by. I spent 21 years in the service of my country in the USAF. Partly because of a sense of duty and partly because I felt I owed a debt for the previous 7 years of my life.

I believe we should have a strong military that is paid a decent wage and with benefits at least equal to their civilian counterparts. And that veterans benefits should be fully funded.

I worked hard for my money and I still do. I believe we should all be taxed at the same rate (eliminating all of the tax loopholes and excuses) and that the IRS should be closed down. Set a rate, pay the tax and move on.

I believe a womans' body is her own and if she doesn't want to carry a baby she has the right to toss it away.

I like guns and think everyone should be issued one at birth and taught how to use it.

I believe that who you decide to have sex with is a personal choice. I don't think anyone should be fired or descriminated against because they enjoy the company of the same gender. The thought of gay marriages doesn't really bother me.

I don't think that reciting the pledge of allegiance (including the word god) is a violation of the constitution. Observing a moment of silence at the beginning of the school day so that those who want, may pray silently also isn't a violation of the constitution.
I don't think children should be required to pray in public school.

As long as we have defendents placing their hands on a bible to swear to tell the truth then what's wrong with the 10 commandments being displayed in the hallway?

Back to the welfare issue. I believe people should work if they're able. I don't think we should have generation after generation in the same household living off my taxes. Bring back public works programs. If they're drawing a government handout then give them a job to earn it.

Americans are the most generous and charitable people on the earth. I think most charities do good work and are more capable than the goverment at meeting the needs of the people. Stop using my tax dollars for social programs.

Art is a wonderful thing. I don't think the government should decide what is pornograpy or what is not. My tax dollars shouldn't go to pay for the arts anyway. Let those who benefit from the arts pay for them. Charge admission at the national museums.

I support the death penalty. I don't think that minor drug users should be filling our jails while real criminals are being released to ease prison over crowding.

Man, you just got me started!!

have nice day

Oh I forgot one.

The USA is the USA not northern Mexico. Mexicans and for that matter everyone else should be deported as soon as they are identified. Prosecute their employers too. Not one US tax dollar should be spent caring for illegal immigrants. No amnesty programs for illegal immigrants.

When the USA became the great melting pot, it was because people came here to build a future not to become a leach off of society. Hell if they want to be here so bad, just sign over the deed to Mexico and we'll make it a US territory.

Some will say they're just filling jobs that Americans don't want. I say they're keeping wages so low (by working for less than the federal minimum wage) that Americans can't afford to do the work.

I'm a conservative because I have faith in each individuals ability to prosper if the government doesn't screw it up for them.

I don't see where in the constitution the government has the right to use force of arms to require anyone to pay for anyone elses baby, abortion, food etc. And if you quote the general welfare clause to me, make sure you read what the Federalist Papers say about it first.

I think liberals and conservatives are flip flopped on abortion. If it's not absolutely clear cut the proper conservative stance is for the government to stay the hell out of it and let us make our own decisions. The same applies to whatever adults do in their own bedroom, or kitchen or whatever. Just keep it private. I don't want to have to explain it to my kids. And this applies to both hetro and homosexuals.

If you think freedom of speech applies to NAMBLA teaching people to abuse children, send them to my neighborhood. I'll show them how I feel about the right to keep and bear arms.

I think one of the basic rights of freedom is the right to succeed or fail as I so choose. I also believe part of freedom is the right to be stupid if I want. And believe me, for most of my 52 years I've excercised this right frequently.

Taxing the rich is the biggest joke in this countries history. #1, there aren't enough rich to pay all the bills. #2 The real rich are smarter then the bozos making the rules and can afford to pay people to find ways to avoid them. Taxes kill the middle class that are trying to become rich. If anyone can find a way to avoid taxes legally this is fine. The IRS makes the rules, we have to play by them. The average American works until the end of May to pay taxes. Tha's very counterproductive. By the way, I am very far from rich.

Could go on forever.

Damn, Pentz, you nailed some great ones.

I agree with much of that, yet disagree on so many others.

No need to explain which issues, it's just so interesting to hear folks explanations for their political persuasions.

Bottom line: All politicians suck.
They may not suck on their way into office, but they sure as hell suck when they get there.

It all boils down to money (taxes).

I feel the republicans have a little more faith in Joe-Worker than the Dems do.
Give money back (tax breaks) to stimulate the private sector. Government shouldn't create jobs. It should allow the creation of jobs.
There's a big difference.

And charity starts at home, but doesn't end there. I pity those who feel that Americans would let unfortunate families starve if not for government money.

I will not get into Conservative, Liberal etc battle, but pretty much agree with Joe (tailgater) and would point out:
1. Opposed to big government looking out for me and others.
2. I am for tax relief and tax breaks for hiring and adding workers by Companies.
3. I am for Pro Choice.
4. I feel our borders should be patroled by the US Army.
5. Do not like the open border in Mexico.
6. I am against affirmative action...long ago outdated and overused today.
5. Sports teams should be allowed to name their teams after Indians (whoops Native Americans) and animals and any other name that they feel fits their franchises.
6. Hate Political Correctness.
7. Feel that the US is the peace keepers for the world and that needs to change by dragging France and Germany into this with the other countries that back the fight against terrorists!
8. Think the anti smoking police are a pain in the ass.
9. Do not need Government telling me what is good for me and what is bad for my health.
10. I could go on, but feel that this is enough!

You can label me any of the above but Liberal! Rickamaven thinks I am to the right of Rush Limbaugh....I am not and feel that Rush is just another mouthpiece with his own agenda.

Charlie