Does anyone here believe in it? i.e., what goes around, comes around so to speak?

I don't know that I would call it "karma", but I feel that there are definite consequences to our actions, be they good or bad.

My feelings are that whenever we do wrong, God temporarily pulls away the protective "mantle" and "allows" us to fend for ourselves until we learn the error of our ways & ask for forgiveness.

I could go on 'n on but what's up Robby?

blood

I was just speaking with someone tonight who's been putting the stones to me (figuritivly, NOT litterally... She doesn't actually have stones, but acts like it sometimes...). I can't help but think that if there is any sort of justice for our actions that she will be made to pay and pay dearly for what she is doing. I'm not saying that I wish that on her, I don't wish harm on anyone, but if there is Karma, then she may be in trouble...

Abusive individuals will inevitably get their comeuppance from other abusive people. I think that stress also magnifies many things which are otherwise not as significant in the larger picture.

Hope you can ride this one out, bro. Think of it as a painful wound which will eventually heal. Now, go drink up some penicillin 'n such!

Doctor bs

KARMA

That which is inevitably destined:
• fate
• destiny
• divine Providence
• fortune
• kismet
• lot
• luck
• predestination
• doom

sort of like you do me first and then i'll do you.

I'm a full on beleiver in Karma. But, I don't really think of it in the negative way. I just know that as long as I am nice and treat others and my environment the best that I possibly can that in the end I will be rewarded for it. I can't really give you any instances where it comes into play, but I live a full, rich life and am very happy. Also, whenever I go anywhere with a huge parking space, there always seems to be an open spot in the front for me when I need it. I guess I live rather hippie-ish.

Do I believe in Karma, what goes around comes around?

In a word: No

In paragraph (or 2 or 3):

I have done MANY bad and terrible things in my life. I will not go into all of that but lets just say that if I were to have been caught and went to trial, I may very well still be in jail or just getting out. That was a LONG time ago. If Karma existed, then I would be a tortured soul. I am not....

I do however believe in Grace and Love. I believe that God has had mercy on me and has forgiven me for my sins and has loved me in spite of my lack of discipline and courage to be honest.

I believe that even as I am still broken and still sin today that God still continues to forgive me and love me. That still amazes me to this very day.

I am a Christian. I don’t believe that there is logic in Christianity. I don’t believe that there is an equation to this life that looks like:

My works and deeds = my level peace and happiness


I do believe that there is an equation that looks like this though:

God Speaks + Man or Woman obeys = Miracles

If God can look past my actions and see the man that I CAN be, that is truly a miracle. If he can reveal that person to me, well that is another miracle. If I can place enough faith in God for that new man to emerge well that is yet another miracle. The list goes on and on.

So, Karma, no way. Forgiveness, Grace and Love trough Christ, absolutely!

I apologize for the long explanation but it’s important to me.

Happy Smokin'

Patman

Patman...that was an AWESOME response.

Karma is intimately connected to the concepts of right thinking and right acting. If you persist in wrongness, eventually wrongness will return to you. Or at the very least, other people will have no interest in treating you rightly. On the cigar boards, it's called cigarma. Act rightly and you will inevitably receive more than you give. That person putting the stones to you Robby? If you take the high road, she will ABSOLUTELY get hers!

^ I agree.

Sorry to "threadjack", Robby, but what is your denomination Pat?
Also, what is your take on Islam (from the Christian perspective)? If you don't want to answer, I'll understand.

One more thing, God answers ALL of our prayers, but they're not necessarily the answers that we wanted to hear. If we ask for His help, He will provide us with what's in our best interest long-term, and essentially our eternal salvation.

Hope your hardships end soon Robby.

Patman:

Not to get into religion too much (although I love it):

But I believe that Faith is logical, not in a human sense, but in a theological sense. I am an unbelievably logical person and I have experienced, tried and studied many things; God's grace through Christ is the most logical means to salvation that exists. We do nothing (in fact we believe [in my church body] that we can't even ask God into our lives that is done through the Holy Spirit). Since we ourselves are not capable of moving toward salvation, only the Creator can do it; that's logical.

In fact God gives me so much and I could even go on sinning and still have salvation, but I choose not to out of thankfulness and also as an example.

Fritz

fritz,

When I said there is no logic in Christianity, I was referring to human / fleshly logic.

For instance, Turn the other cheek. I'll tell ya, if you punch me in the face, my mind says I'm gonna freakin kill you and be glad that I did it. My spirit says easy there big guy. What happened to bring this on, How can I allow the grace of God into this situation?

Human logic is to defend while spiritual logic is to love and embrace. That is all that I was saying. Sorry for not being clear enough.


Blood,

As for the nation of Islam, they are people just like you and me. God loves them just as much and he does every Christian and non Christian alike. His love surpasses understanding. What is my take on them as a nation or a religion or as a sect or even a race? I'll say this. No one is beyond the grace of our father. No one! Do I appreciate what they are doing? Of course not. Do I value them as a people? Yes I do. Do I pray for them as well as our solders? Definitely.

There was once a young man that used to hurt people, steal their things, kill their animals, sell drugs to their children and even worse.

He is a new creation today because of the love of Christ. He likes cigars and is not perfect. He is NOT guilt driven, he is Love and Grace driven. Why do I tell you this? If he can change, anyone can.

The statement above addresses the violence in the Middle East. Now what about the peaceful folks of Islam?

The peaceful folks of Islam are just like the peaceful folks of Buddhism, Wickin or anything other than Christianity in my mind. Understand that I am not a religious man. In my mind religion kills. But a personal relationship with God through Christ gives birth to everlasting life. So I do not rebuke them as a nation or religion or anything, no, I embrace them. And love them the same way God did me when I was a Satan worshiping, car stealing drug addict.

Is it easy? Heck no! Is it worth it? I believe so. Do I always succeed? Unfortunately, No.

When I do "I thank God, when I fail I ask forgiveness and when the say is done I lay my head on a pillow and rest." - Max Lucado

Hey Patman:

PAX. A good poat and response. One of my dgrees is in theology and I need to let it out once in a while. Thanks.

Fritz

oops, I ment to say when the Day is done... I am really bad at typing... Sorra about that.

Fritz,

Not a poblem man... Where did you go to school at? I am considering getting going to seminary... Kinda scared and no $$$

I took under at U of M and went on to Graduate school there. Fritz

[email protected]

Drop me a line some time..

Really sorry about the thread jack here... Total Violation of thread rights.... WOW. Verry Verry Sorry!

Understand that I am not a religious man. In my mind religion kills. But a personal relationship with God through Christ gives birth to everlasting life.

Max, you had me until you made the above odd, seemingly contradictory comment.

I respect what you say you've been through, and really admire your apparent frankness. However, you are practicing moral relativism when you lump all religions together. Not to split hairs, but some are closer to the Word than others.

I don't have the time right now, but when I do, I will begin a thread on Islam. A religion that in my opinion is based on paganism with smatterings of Christianity and Judaism. A religion of intolerance, of cruelty, and MANY written contradictions. Seems old Muhammad's "ramblings" were recorded whenever he had epiltectic seizures...

BTW, Islam encompasses many races, nationalities, and cultures. In fact, some consider it a culture unto itself.

I wish you the best on your "journey", brother.

blood

^ "epileptic"

I look forward to the thread...