oh, i'd like to get in on the theology debatin' sometime. 🙂 maybe someone could start a thread?

robby: keep in mind this first and foremost: THIS, TOO, SHALL PASS. 🙂 the only thing we can be sure of is change.

as for karma... i don't call it that, but i have seen the "what goes around comes around" thing happen far too many times NOT to believe in the concept. it is, by far, the rule and not the exception that you get more of whatever you put out into the universe.

it is not, however, necessarily neat and tidy. "instant karma" so to speak DOES happen, but not often. but over time it is crystal clear to me that what you put out there will return to you.

bad things happen to good people -- for awhile.
good things happen to bad people -- for awhile.

use the (what's the word for this?) corrolary... example... whatever it's called... that light = the positive we do and darkness = the negative.

all it takes to break the darkness is a spark, one lone candle. in fact, the more total the darkness, the more clearly and farther the light of a single candle can be seen. darkness never extinguishes light; it only magnifies it.

when people are caught up in their own negativity, they express it to the world. and for awhile they may "win." they may achieve their goals. this will not always be the case, BUT "divine retribution" or "the law of the universe" or "cosmic justice" does not always take the form of an eye for an eye.

the person who is persecuting you may not "get hers" in the same manner she's putting it to you. it WILL come back to her somehow, though. sometimes it is in the same form, sometimes not.

"he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword" doesn't just talk about violence. it's a truth that tells us that what we do will return to us.

Okay, here’s my .03 cents.

I don’t believe in Karma in the strict definition of it. However, I believe Karma is a byproduct of something else. I believe that human beings exist in a war zone between Good and Evil. I also believe that God, with His infinite love has granted us free will, but Evil uses that free will to push us off God’s path.

Coming back around to Karma, when people stray from God’s path they partially or fully disconnect themselves from God… God’s connection is always there but we may choose not to take it. At the same time this happens we attract the attention of Evil. Once we do that, that’s when “Karma” becomes evident. Evil’s intent is to destroy humanity, disconnect humanity from God and rule our universe. When bad “Karma” happens we are not punished by God, but we are living life as Evil would have it. When good “Karma” happens it’s not God’s reward… it’s God’s original plan for humanity. The “reward” was always there.

sylance, that's a good way of putting it. good job.

right on dude...

I believe in "Garma".

in-a da mafia, they just-a believe in-a one kinda "divine" justice. it's ordered from-a da godfaddah and it's-a called HARMA, as in "you mess-a wit' me, an' me an' my boys will cause-a you much HARMA."

Bloody Spaniard,

Let me try to help you understand this seemingly contradictory statement from an earlier post: "In my mind religion kills. But a personal relationship with God through Christ gives birth to everlasting life. "

Religion puts the emphasis on PEOPLE and what PEOPLE can do to save themselves from Hell. Religion establishes lists of "do this" and "don't do that" and adherents of religion feel safe as long as they are keeping the rules. Religion gives people permission to look at themselves relative to everyone else and say "I'm a good person, I keep the rules, I'm not like those other people so I MUST be going to Heaven." In the end, religion leads to death. Not physical death, but spiritual death - people trudging through life obeying rules that seem irrelevant in today's world, hoping, but not knowing for sure, that obedience will keep them out of Hell.

Christianity is different. Christianity is a relational faith where we acknowledge that we are sinners and that - apart from believing Jesus is the Son of God, asking forgiveness for our sins, and accepting a personal relationship with God through Jesus - we can do nothing to save ourselves.

As Christians grow in faith and mature over time we realize that certain behaviors are destructive and we stop. We also realize that the world is watching and what is okay for us may not be okay for our neighbors and we stop because we don't want to lead our neighbors down a path toward destruction - both now and in the hereafter.

Christians have a living, relational faith, not a recipe book for avoiding Hell. That, in a nutshell, is the difference between religion and Christianity, and why religion leads to death.

Check out this cartoon example of Karma at work:

http://billyblob.com/cartoons/karma-ghost/ 

"Understand that I am not a religious man. In my mind religion kills."

Oh, so brother Dave was using a metaphor. I took it literally-the Crusades, inquisitions, pogroms, Jim Jones, etc.

I would enjoy discussing this further with you Marty but I've got to go. However, your comments were clear & logical. Only issue that I would have is that people need clear absolutes (good vs. bad). These are static. They do not change, as opposed to conventional mores which can be shaped by Hollywood.

Good "seeing" you, brother.

Well actually the comment was dynamic. It's metaphorical as well as litteral. I truly beleive that religion or more politically correctly, religous disagreements have killed more people than any other topic, secular or otherwise.

And it kills the spirit as well.

The whole point here is that the Church needs to get away from legalisim and religon and get down to a pesonal relationship with God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. Its that simple.

Once we start to act like our faith is more than just agood conversation peice and take it seriously our whole world will change.

My questions is what are we all waiting for?

Patman,

The thing keeping people from accepting Christ as savior today has been the same for the past 2000 years - ego. People don't want to admit that there is an absolute standard embodied in Christ himself, and that no human being has ever been able to live up to that standard.

People want their lives evaluated on a curve - something like "I did the best I could and that should be enough."

There's more - a lot more - but that's enough for now.

christ didn't offer a cushy happy place in life. he offers a challenge -- a huge challenge -- that permeates every aspect of life and how we live it.

it's not good enough, for example, to just do x, y and z. what's in your heart about it? what are you thinking about? what's your attitude? christ raised the bar considerably and gave us ONE rule: to love (love god, love others, love ourselves). every other possible combination of rules are fulfilled when we follow that one simple but far from easy rule.

some folks see god as a cushy, gushy teddy bear -- all soft clouds and pastel ranbows. others see god as vengeance and thunder and lightning -- which will strike down anyone such folks think "deserves it."

people pick and choose the "rules" to follow. one example -- condemn homosexuals to the point of passing national laws, but where's the hue and cry about people who eat cheeseburgers? pound on the same rules used to persecute one group, but ignore those who mix beef and dairy. eating a cheeseburger is a sin, sin, sin! but people are not passionately boycotting mcdonald's for propagating this sinfulness and ruining morals with their shameless advertising and recruitment of more folks to fall into sin and eat their cheeseburgers!

old testament stuff? sure, but you'll still see people dredging it up to use as "justification."

where are the church campaigns to make sure that divorced people have no right to marry? or adulterers?

no. many folks don't rightly care what the "rules" are -- and certainly seem to not get it about the ONLY one christ gave us. instead, folks pick and choose based upon their OWN ideas of "right and wrong" -- then they skim through the bible and dig up a passage here and there that they can twist around to justify their own personal peeves and dislikes.

What's this about divorcees marrying?? Against? I'd like to know what you meant.
Fritz

I'm not a believer in it (as the belief in Karma inherently requires a belief in rebirth), but I am a abit of a specialist in Buddhism (just got back from a 6 month academic trip to India, Tibet and Nepal) to do research on Tibetan Buddhism (had a wonderfully interesting (can you feel the sarcasim???) 40 page thesis on "The Problems in Tibetan Democracy Due to its close Relationship with the Tibetan Religious Establishment"). Anyhow, if anyone has any questions (or if someone wants an object blessed by the Dalai Lama the next time we trade) email me at BongoSTL at hotmail dot com

fritz: the new testament verse (one of them anyway) i refer to is this, where christ said: "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

GHia VW

Cavallo, I agree about the picking and choosing, but what about these rules;

1. Women should not talk in church, but rather they should ask their husbands for clarification if they have any questions?

2. Women should no adorn themselves... That means, no jewelry, no makeup...

3. You will know my followers because they will drink deadly poisons and they will not harm them, they will handle deadly serpents and they will not be harmed...

The problem with literal word for word interpretation is that you get fundamentalist churches where they swig strychnine and handle snakes! And no, I don't think those women wear makeup either... Maybe they got it right?

interestingly enough...a lot of those 3 selections that you pointed out come from some of the letters of Paul that were not really written by Paul, but added by a later redactor (we know they're not paul's, we just don't know whose they are...). I believe only 7 (off the top of my head) of the letters are truly Pauline...

Let us return to the subject "Karma". In my 60 years I have been told 6 times that I have good Karma. Each time I was told that I had good Karma it was followed with the word " Dude " and the question " You have any good **** on you man ". LoL JonR

robby: also good points. what i understand of the first two points is that they were addressed to a particular church in a particular place where women being noisy during worship was very disruptive. this was the instruction to THOSE women only. however, you're correct that some denominations (usually holiness/charismatics) hold fast to that as "the way it should be" for ALL women.

fritz: there are denominations -- some pretty big ones -- that adhere to this belief that marrying after a divorce = committing the sin of adultery. some believe it so much so that you will be excommunicated if you commit this "sin." many other mainstream christian denominations do not see it that way, though.

bongo: i'm shooting you an email in a few re: india et al.

but anyway -- KARMA! -- whatever name you call it, i do believe in the principle that "what you put out there comes back to you" and magnified at that.

i've just seen it happen far too many times NOT to believe that it occurs. 🙂