Sorry Joldn(sp?) but DrM is correct. I have "special needs" boys (autistic) in the Maryland and in the Virginia schools systems. The teachers are not held accountable for their "progress" which is minimal. My wife could talk your ears off regarding this topic.

Great thread, Tony--good pros & cons.

blood

Public education was great during the 8 Clinton years. All the students were respectful of their teachers and devoted to learning. They turned in their homework on time, generally made straight A's, the teachers were happy with their pay and benefits, and the children sat quietly on the busses to and from school. Then Shrub's daddy's supremo court stole the presidency from that Southern fire-and-brimstone evangelist son of a Ku Kluxer and the schools just went to hell in a handbasket. All the schools' problems can be solved by voting for Kerry.

I was referring to LD, PI, SLD & VE students....not mentally handicaped

Thanks for validating Blood. It's a select club that you and I belong to. Many can't or won't comprehend what goes on in their classroom. My wife and I are devoted to making sure our daughter gets the best education possible. Later on in life...she'll need every bit that she's acquired. My daughter was born with Spina Bifida and is paralyzed from T-4 down. One of her complications was hydrocephalus and that's where the learning disability stems from. It's amazing that a select few can't or won't see the "forest for the trees". Some have viewed special education as a drain, but I see the benefits twofold. On one hand my daughter is learning and becoming productive and on the other hand she's not going to be shoved into some asylum so society can pretend that people that aren't like them don't exist. Maintaining accountability is paramount. They've pushed through too many through the system as it is. Don't believe me? Look at the lyrics of 99.9% of most rap lyrics. The artist can be black, white, hispanic or alien...it doesn't matter. They want to project a "dumbing" down for themselves. Bill Cosby's recent comments should be coupled with this thread as well!

Keep on keeping on Blood...I'm fighting the "fight" with you.

Proof....read what makes up subgroups:


http://www.fldoe.org/NCLB/FactSheet-AYP.pdf 

That's all fine and dandy info, and I don't have a problem with any of it. Florida has raised their own bar and I'm proud that I live there. NCLB doesn't apply though. Your link didn't didn't substantiate your claim that special needs is holding back a school from acquiring their stated goals. NCLB isn't designed for them, and if you knew what you were talking about you'd already know that!

We have schools in Duval county that have graded A with the state but have failed NCLB because of one subgroup. Letters ahve been sent to all parents of these schools informing parents that these schools have not met AYP. Again, I am not against accountability or reform, but NCLB is to inflexible and unrealistic....you have yet to respond to my earlier question about all Drs being required to have 100 % cure rates.

Oh and by the way, I do know what I'm talking about. NCLB DOES apply to LD, SLD & VE groups (they make up some of the subgroups by which a school is judged). To say that they are to perform on the same level as students without disabilities is ubsurd.

Personally...your concocted story about doctors has no bearing on whatever your choosing to believe in regards to NCLB. Post a link of this failed school. I'm intrigued to see a school that wants to use the special education platform as an excuse as to why their other classes aren't passing their students. Like I've already stated, each student in special education has their own IEP. It's tailored to the individual and not to the class. They do not take the FCAT either. There are some children that are in a special education class for one or two particular subjects, but my daughter's class is filled with 18 kids, 1 teacher and 2 para-pros. Want to blame somebody for NCLB? Look towards the NEA. They're the ones that foot-dragged the issue of accountability. Most of them still believe in tenure as the only measure of being a good educator.

As for my moniker...don't read too much into it. I could be Stephen Hawking or your dad. It's just a name. I'm a Fishbone fan...that's all.

My bad....sorry mean old Ms Smith made you sit in the corner in 2nd grade. Get over it.

And I thought I was talking to someone that could get their point across in an educated manner without the childish remarks.

The Duval county school...what's the name of it?

Sorry but you had already lowered the bar with the "if you knew what you were talking about" remark. Beauclerc Elementary is one school not making AYP this year. Stop confusing Physically Impaired and Mentally Handicapped with all ESE. There are 5 subgroups....ESE is only one of them. You misunderstand my stand on ESE....I'm a former teacher of Profoundly Handdicapped and Autistic students. My complaint with NCLB is that good teachers are labeled as bad because of not hitting the 100% mark on all students in their classroom(this will happen in a few years). NCLB applies to all schools in the state of Florida along with A-Plus(except ESE centers).

No one is arguing that bad teachers don't exist. Bad professionals exist in every profession. Many fair to good teachers will have their jobs threatened because of a bad law is my point.

^Sorry to interrupt the lively exchange between you & DrM, but Drm's comment hit home.

*Sorry for the threadjack*
Thanks for for the support, brother.
You said that your baby was born with Spina Bifida(sp?)? I don't mean to pry & forgive my ignorance, but isn't that a condition where part of the spinal cord is exposed? Someone told me that it may be partially caused by a lack of sufficient folic acid (vitamin 😎 in the expectant mother? How old is your baby?

If you don't want to talk about it, I understand.
My e-mail is "mdi at maranatha.net" if you ever want to share. In the meantime, I will pray for you, your family, and especially your baby girl.

Everyone has a cross to bear in life. Some of us just have more of a challenge than others. There is a reason for it--we just don't know why, but the answer will become clear in time. I hope you realize that your sharing will bring you the prayers and support of many of the brothers on these boards. Hearts mend faster that way.

Shoot DrM, now it's going to be harder to goof on you! 😉

Sorry (again)for the interruption.

No problem SP...my son has aspbergers syndrome.

DMV upset at someone for "childish reamrks". Now that is funny.

Let's not forget one very important fact:
The Bush administration didn't put this act into being for **** and giggles, nor to hurt the education system.
They implemented it because the education system in America was going down the tubes. Kids were/are graduating without basic reading and math skills.
Why? Because nobody wants to keep a kid back because it will hurt their self esteem.

If NCLB doesn't work, then let's fix it.
To sit there and bitch about it is counterproductive at best.
At least there was an attempt.

Let's face it, if it takes the FEDERAL government to fix our schools then we're in deep doo doo.
If local municipalities simply applied commmon sense we wouldn't need Uncle Sam to do the dirt work.

Suck it up, America!
Teach your children well.

Gater, I predict that this program will eventually be phased out or have most of its budget gutted. Some politician down the road will say that the results do not justify the $$$ spent. Same old, same old...

In my case, where I have two autistic boys in two different school sysytems, all that I have noticed is that there is an additional inch of reports to fill out. The special-ed teachers have never really been held accountable, but now all that they will do is "dumb-down" the expectations/goals so that they are easier to reach. So I am ambivalent about this new law. Knowing human nature as I do, people/teachers naturally take the "road of least resistance". They also cover their asses. They'll probably find a way around it.

It seems that you and DrM are much better read than I regarding this "NCLB". You guys certainly know your acronyms. I could care either way for this NCLB business. All that I want is that our children live out their lives with basic skills and without undue hardships after we are gone.


Joldnol, I was sorry to see that your child has aspberger's syndrome. In a way (and I mean this respectfully), you're luckier than most, in that you have a higher-functioning autistic child. In fact, many of these children grow up to be brilliant engineers, mathematicians, teachers, authors, etc. They say that Einstein may have had a form of Aspbergers. You hang in there as well.

blood

The biggest problem with education today is the parents.

Amen to that AVB!
My wife is a teacher by trade, although she's been a full time mom since we had our first kid 7 years ago.
She went back to teaching as an assistant for a special needs child at our kids school (part time) and saw the very worst a parent can do.
This particular childs parents were divorced and in their efforts to limit information to their estranged spouse they limitted information to the school and his teachers.
We're talking negligence here, of the kind that would (or should) result in the state taking the kid away from his moron parents.

Certainly this is an extreme case, but you see it all over. Parents (most) think their kids are special and deserve only good things.
They expect the schools to raise their kids.

Folks, I'm not that old, but when I was growing up my parents made sure I was following the school curriculum, doing my homework, and taking education seriously.
Today, when a kid acts up, the parents blame the teachers.

We're not talking about a village here. We're talking about self responsibility. And it starts at a very young age.

eleltea

i neglected to blame george w bush for the problem.

i'm sorry.